Even Ime has said we need to play fast and then he turns around and plays walk it up, dribble endlessly, FVV for 40mins. Our problem is we have a sh*t offensive coach and a PG that doesn’t fit the rest of the team. Ime needs to improve and FVV needs to go.
I understood in the playoffs that when Ime says to play fast, he just means he wants them to hurry up to the slow halfcourt play. He doesn't actually want the team to attack aggressively in transition like Indiana. We should be attacking off makes and misses. Sengun should be throwing outlets. He's too risk averse with these things.
It's fair. But Amen has only emerged midway through the past season. You can't develop an identity on the fly, unless your guy is already a superstar. Amen is obviously not there yet. Our identity under Udoka before Amen's ascension was FVV and Sengun with Jalen as the secondary. You can tell Udoka prioritized molding the offense around those two guys. We all complain about Ime not being a creative offensive mind. Our offense is quite traditional PG oriented PnR and Sengun iso trying to make his way from the midrange to the close range. Those are pretty slow style. Honestly, even if you put Amen in the PG position, if the offensive set is the same, it won't speed up the pace. If I understand your take correctly, your idea of fast pace seems to be faster transition, not faster half court. I don't think there's any coach in the world who wouldn't want more fast break opportunities. Everyone knows fast break is one of the most efficient way to score. But getting fast break opportunities depends on several factors. 1. You need to prioritize running and it will hurt defensive rebounding. So there's a trade off. My guess is that Udoka's philosophy is leaning toward rebounding. 2. You need good outlet passers. Unfortunately our main rebounders (Sengun, Jabari, and Amen) aren't really that great in that department. Funny that IMO our best outlet passer is a small guy who seldom plays. (hint: his last name sounds like someone working with sheep ) 3. You need competent ball handlers who can run and is good at making fast decisions. FVV is an okay decision maker but isn't very fast. Same with Sengun. Amen, Jalen, and Tari are fast but not good decision makers. Amen is the most promising. So far, he's great at doing one-man fast break but needs to improve on leading a 3-on-1, 2-on-1, 3-on-2 situations. For half court pace, you need a primary offensive engine that is great at reading the defense and making quick decisions. I hope Amen will develop into that. Right now, he still has a ways to go. You also need good schemes that can be executed quickly and high IQ players who understand moving without the ball.
Great post, I actually agree with you there on the team currently being Alpi's team so focused around him. As Amen emerges the focus should naturally shift towards his playstyle.
I've been advocating for faster pace and roster construction of 6'6" to 6'9" wings predominantly. Some smaller players like Jrue Holiday play bigger while newer players like Wemby can handle the ball like a guard. Sengun helps you win in the regular season as teams are thin in the front court and Sengun can throw his 50 pound plus weight around and get advantages. In the playoffs teams can take advantage of the big lugs playing Drop Coverage or running the court a step behind. Playoffs becomes a half court game; but can still be a numbers game of out running the Center and get a numbers game and find an open 3 somewhere. I was furious against the signing of VanVleet and Dillon because they slow the pace. But Udoka feels the quickest way to victory is by way of defensive players. Now the 3 elements can be rounded out: 1) 3 facilitators, 2) 3-point shooters, 3) defenders (switch everything Wings)
First to be honest I don't try to change anyone's mind, as most posters will never change their mind regardless of info, or say my mistake, you're right, with data, facts etc. I'm willing to change my mind but don't expect others to, as they many times just become entrenched in their position and want the last word. Rather I like to flesh it out for the reader who is open minded. You've shared your subjective opinion and feelings based on one season, I've presented objective data and facts on multiple teams and seasons. I have yet to see you present any data or facts beyond subjective opinion. I shared how Boston was #20 regular season and #11 in the playoffs in pace during thier championship year. They were not the fastest or slowest, they could adapt to both and win. I agree with you and you're right about a team imposing their will. But imposing your will isn't synonymous with pace and can mean many things. You be dominant in a fast pace style and win, or be a terrible young lottery team the Rockets were in 21-22, second in the league in pace. 'Letting the young, athletic guys play' under Silas. 2022.html Or you can be dominant as a slow team, or lose like NY did. They key was the Knicks couldn't adapt to the pace, they needed to be able to do both. We'll use your example, Indiana. Although they are faster paced as a whole, they have swiched and adapted to win at both slower and very fast paces. They switched pace almost six possessions per series between Milwaukee, Cleveland and OKC from about 96-102 per series, FYI the slowest regular season pace in the league this year was Boston at 95.7. So Indiana literally switched and was able to adapt and win a playoff series this year both very slow and extremely fast. You can be extremely dominant in a pace and win, but to increase the odds you need to be able to adapt to what the defense gives you and punish it, not being one dimensional like Nash's Suns. Imposing your will can mean many different things, including pace but not necessarily. We'll agree to disagree and I'll stop responding and move on. https://www.basketball-reference.co...n-conference-first-round-bucks-vs-pacers.html https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2025-nba-finals-pacers-vs-thunder.html
Or you know, you could read what I ACTUALLY wrote, and stop projecting what you thought I wrote. I never said "you have to be fast." I said "no team plays by switching from super fast to super slow, you don't have to do both." You've now started arguing a completely different point, and in fact, you're AGREEING with my point which is - you don't have to be both fast and slow, or fast, or slow, you have to be the team which executes their style the best. Seriously, just learn to read and stop acting so superior, it's ridiculous that you just ranted that much to argue against something I never even said, you know?
Like you literally just proved my point "you don't have to do both, Boston didn't" and your response was? "Boston were 20th in the regular season" (ie 20 out of 30, or around the bottom third of the league) "11th in the postseason" (11 out of 16, or the bottom third of the playoffs in a near identical position) ergo proving my point, not yours. Imagine being that much of a spastic you try and argue against my point by proving it?
This stoopid build around analogy has to stop, nowadays you build with players and give them insight and ask for their vision...... Can't believe you and Udoka are all stuck in the 90s. It is the same as companies do with their assets becoming mini share holders.
this dude posts the stupidest ****ing ****, you'd think after his non-stop Jalen posts he'd shutup. I wiash @AroundTheWorld was still here just to get on his nerves
I would call it Ime’s team. He doesn’t play to the strengths of any particular player. He plays Sengun and fvv most because he likes the traditional pnr game. Doesn’t really try to use Sengun’s passing. We’ll see what he does with Amen this year.
Great post. We don't disagree on anything except (maybe) on: what to do in the years it will take for us to be good at a slow half court pace. My opinion is we should develop a fast paced team that attacks viciously and the second unit (which includes a couple of key starters) can slow it down. It's not that uncommon for your second unit to be your best lineup. To simplify, that means playing fast 70% of the time and slow 30% of the time. Then we gradually increase that 30% to 40% and 50% and so on until we find the perfect mix. In general young teams are not good at slow halfcourt pace. It seems pretty natural to take advantage of your youth and athleticism first and then develop slowly into that mature team that can play in the half court at a slow pace too. I don't think going full on slow pace halfcourt style is going to speed up the process. The guys who will succeed in that system need things that take years to develop independent of experience (namely elite handling and strength). You see it in the current playoffs with Haliburton - when the opponent forces a slow pace successfully, he dies. He can't pick up more than 10-15 points on very few shots and usually not very efficient. He will certainly one day be capable of mastering both styles, but in the meantime you cater to your current strengths. Again though, I'm not even that attached to a fast pace. If we decide to go a slow pace and master that first, fine. However, the team has to commit to that. We were truly committed to that in the first half of the season starting our best slow pace lineup of Sengun/FVV and 3 catch and shoot threats in Green, FVV, Brooks. However Amen doesn't fit in this plan. Two non-shooters in a slow half court pace is death. That's why I prefer the fast plan because I believe Sengun and Amen are not so compatible till one of them develops a jumper. In the meantime, I believe far more in Sengun adapting to a fast pace than Amen (and Green and Whitmore and Tari) being immediately ready for a slow pace. The only thing we shouldn't do is have no plan and throw out incompatible players out there.
I think he means well but he's stuck in an ancient debunked idea that the playoffs are slow so you have to master being slow. Or that you can master both styles simultaneously, another fallacy. That's why he has to keep comparing the playoff pace to a regular season pace. But what he doesn't get is: - If you play slow in the regular season, then you will be extra slow in the post season. - Pace is relative. When we're talking about pace in this thread, we're talking about being the faster team vs opponents. - Even if it doesn't work for one series here or there, the Pacers are undeniably the fastest team in the playoffs and in a way that the pace metrics can't even quantify. They are stubborn and aggressive about it. They don't slow down because of a turnover here or there. They slow down only if the series calls for it. There's nothing wrong with that but at the end of the day the Pacers identity is they are the fastest team. That's beyond debate.
The problem isn't pace, it's shooting. The Rockets "best players" are poor or streaky shooters. The average NBA 3 point percentage was .376 for the past season. Only 1 Rockets starter eclipsed that mark - and everyone wants to trade that guy (Dillon Brooks). None of the Rockets top 8 rotation players, aside from Brooks came closer than .022 (2.2%) of that "league average number." Understand this - Only ONE of the Rockets top 8 rotation players was "average" as a 3 point shooter. Is there any question why the paint is packed, there are few lanes to attack or why it's so easy to shadow perimeter players with a 2nd defender? .....It's not pace. It's not Ime. These dudes can't shoot.
Rockets need an alpha scorer. That simple. If Jalen was that guy, rockets probably end up in the conference finals…
Bad shooting teams generally want to maximize possessions by getting good looks and get out in transition when the opportunity presents itself. Pushing the pace for a poor shooting team is playing into the hands of the opponent. Run when the opportunity is there, otherwise slow it down and make sure you get a good shot. This team probably doesn't get much better offensively until it finds that offensive centerpiece. There might be some incremental / individual improvement, but none of these guys are particularly gifted scorers. They need to maximize possessions.
Aaron Holiday averaged 40% and he didnt get much burn. Its not about the shooting its about the lack of plays and also wrong players getting put in. If its just a matter of spacing you dont need sharpshooters, you just need shooters. As long as the guy is 35% or better, the opponent will still need to respect his shot even if its "below average" or w/e. Mathematically if a guy is shooting around 35% thats like 1.05 pts per attempt or a dude shooting 51% from the field. You cant leave a guy like that open.
