1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,237
    Likes Received:
    9,215
  2. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    43,758
    Likes Received:
    3,697
    I watch a lot of cop dramas. Whenever it's about the Russian mobsters they seem to include Ukranians
     
    ROCKSS likes this.
  3. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,237
    Likes Received:
    9,215
  4. Kemahkeith

    Kemahkeith Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2018
    Messages:
    4,067
    Likes Received:
    5,635
    What is scary about everything that has unfolded over the last few years with this conflict, is the fact that we have built up a military of potentially obsolete fighting mechanisms. To me it does not appear that tanks, aircraft, and guns are the way to go. Drones seem to be the future, and this levels the field for countries other than the United States. Relatively inexpensive compared to high tech fighter jets.

    I hope USA is big into drone development.
    And I'm glad we have oceans as buffers. I suspect a drone cannot make it from China to the USA unless it is transported for a portion of the ride.
     
    ROCKSS, jchu14 and astros123 like this.
  5. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    18,091
    Likes Received:
    8,536
    Drone warfare has been talked about for at least 20 years. Musk went on a rant several years back about how drones will be terrifying sophisticated. There are a lot of WWI parallels to draw from that should have many people concerned. People who are banging on about how Russia is an existential threat to Europe are completely missing the point. As drones become MUCH more sophisticated and these factories come online, this type of warfare will spread through the entire world. And if the US doesn't pull their head out of their ass soon, the world is heading into a global conflict that very well could bring the actual destruction to US shores.
     
  6. No Worries

    No Worries Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    32,752
    Likes Received:
    20,509
    Please be more specific. Who is going to start the next world war? and why?

    This will not happen on the Mad King Don's watch, so there is that.
     
  7. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    25,669
    Likes Received:
    22,375
    Well according to SpaceGhost all you need to know here is its NOT RUSSIA!!!

    Did you get that... Russia is NOT a threat!! Who else is... well... let's not get bogged down with facts, and details. Lets just make sure everyone knows that Russia is NOT a threat.
     
    ROCKSS and dmoneybangbang like this.
  8. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    25,669
    Likes Received:
    22,375
    Right now, our adversaries don't have to worry about using drones, or bombs to destroy the United States. The best weapon deployed onto American shores was America itself and turning this country against itself.

    I kind of get reminded often about the movie Inception when Leo's character says something along the lines of "the most dangerous virus is an idea".

    The idea that was implanted into half of American's brain 10 to 15 years ago, and now implanted into young men is one that will destroy this country. This idea that the greatest threat to their lives, and our civilization is liberalism. This distorted idea that "freedom" actually means freedom from having to live in a communal pluralistic society.

    This idea that has been planted as we speak is taking our country down as a global super power in a way that a drone strike from North Korea, or an Islamic terrorist attack ever could dream of doing.
     
  9. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,237
    Likes Received:
    9,215
    read Ghost Fleet, which imagines a highly plausible Chinese drone attack on Pearl Harbor:

    https://a.co/d/iZm9NWB
     
    Kemahkeith likes this.
  10. No Worries

    No Worries Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    32,752
    Likes Received:
    20,509
    Well, Ukraine just took out 1/3 of the Russia strategic bombers which is part of their nuclear triad ... and which they no longer have the skills to rebuild at least for now.

    Thank you, Ukraine!!!
     
    Nook, SamFisher and ROCKSS like this.
  11. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    18,091
    Likes Received:
    8,536
    Wars almost always happen due to continued escalation that require propaganda (convincing a country's population to send their children off to die for old men) and dire economic issues. The question isn't WHO is going to start the next major war but between whom. That I can't answer.

    What I can tell you is that the country who currently holds the global reserve currency is facing massive debt issues. Countries/economies who rely on this system start facing significant hardships while this debt starts unwinding. From here, we being to see escalations and factions being formed. As these countries start facing more and more hardships, aggressive populist leaders come into power who further escalate these issues. Then all it takes is a single psychopathic warhawk to come into power to push the situation into widespread conflict.

    Globally, we are no where near this point, despite low iq people thinking Putin is the anti-christ or Hitler 2.0. There is no appetite, demand or infrastructure for a global war. Germany didn't build a military in 6 months. It took many years for Germany to prepare. They used their experience from WWI to build up the most advanced military, lessons learned from the previous war. There was a massive technological difference between WWI and WWII, just like there is becoming an increasing technological difference between a 'modern' military a decade ago vs what we are currently witnessing in Ukraine. F22's and F35's are not going to cut it. We have known this. A hypersonic missile can deploy hundreds of drones and US assets are defenseless against such attacks.

    This is why its extremely important to keep large economic countries trading with each other. Pushing large countries into low yielding sanctions due to emotional response is utterly stupid. This is why the current administration is now working with middle east countries to relax some of the ITAR restrictions. If we do not work with them, they will simply go work with China. Both Republicans and Democrats need to pull their head out of their ass and stop treating everyone who disagrees with them as the enemy.
     
    glynch and Nook like this.
  12. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,530
    Likes Received:
    14,261
    The US has been using drones for awhile now.

    A F35 or B2 Bomber can still hit targets farther away and with more ordinances than their drone counterparts. If anything, the ordinances used by our advanced aircraft will be more drone like so. Israel’s recent attack on Iranian hard targets couldn’t have been done with drones.
     
  13. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,530
    Likes Received:
    14,261
    Good book… but that also required the Chinese to take over our satellite system.
     
  14. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,530
    Likes Received:
    14,261
    Of course F22s and F35s are going to cut it… especially as they get armed with more advanced ordinances.

    Like I said earlier, Israel launched US made aircraft at Iran which took out air defense and hardened targets.

    Elon Fanbois need to pull their head out of their ass and realize there is a growing alliance that wants to see the West degraded.
     
    dobro1229 likes this.
  15. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,735
    Likes Received:
    41,150
    Half the national security apparatus right now (the part that isn't leaked on Signal like war plans) - is trying to figure out ways to throw flash bang grenades at restarurant workers and deport working nannies to salvadoran torture jails. This is actually true, the FBI, DNI, CIA - all of these orgs that are supposed to keep us safe are being redirected for Stephen Miller's fetish.

    An actual foreign state or non-state actor is sitting pretty with this shitty gangster state that installed itself - operations are much easier to plan now.
     
    ROCKSS, Nook, FranchiseBlade and 2 others like this.
  16. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,237
    Likes Received:
    9,215
  17. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,237
    Likes Received:
    9,215
  18. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    25,669
    Likes Received:
    22,375
    I get it that drones at this scale do look terrifying.

    That being said though I refuse to believe that there wont be drone defense tech & equipment developed at some point that can be shot up in the sky like a shotgun approach and just wipe all these radio shack toys out of the sky in an instance.

    I mean look at how a firework works conceptually. That's almost ancient craftsmanship at this point. The concept of creating a single piece of artillery that can go up in the sky, and explode over a massive size relatively safely for the people on the ground is not a novel concept.

    The value of drones so far really has been the surprise attack more than anything. What I see with drone warfare in the future is a huge giant waste of money mixed in with some surprise attacks here and there when people are caught off guard with whats up in their sky.

    That being said it has been an excellent value counteroffensive tool for a country being attacked by a superpower to make their war efforts frustrating. That is a good defensive tool every small country can have in their arsenal to deter malicious tyrants at their border so there is some good that is coming from drone tech at such an affordable price.
     
    ROCKSS and Nook like this.
  19. Xerobull

    Xerobull ...and I'm all out of bubblegum
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2003
    Messages:
    36,769
    Likes Received:
    35,608
    Agree there will be countermeasures. However, one of the values of drones is maneuverability and size. They can come in at 3 feet above ground. A countermeasure will take a dome from ground to sky. Or better Hunter-killer drones.

    Russia isn’t a superpower. China isn’t even a superpower. There’s only one military superpower, and that’s the US.
     
    ROCKSS, Nook and dobro1229 like this.
  20. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,530
    Likes Received:
    14,261
    It's a cat and mouse game.... Those drones can't really carry much weight and have a limited range but a swarm of drones carry small explosives can do significant damage to a target if it's close enough.

    This is from WSJ from a year ago:

     
    dobro1229 likes this.

Share This Page