Season 2 has its problems, mainly caused by just simply trying to cram too much narrative into too little screen time, but this guy's channel has descended into garbage tier wokespotting rage merchant nonsense over and over. It's legit worse than the crap he reviews. Bella Ramsey was a decent choice for young Ellie, but has turned out to be a poor choice for old Ellie. She is a fine supporting character but cannot carry the show on her own. She lacks some of the gravitas needed both physically and emotionally for the adult version of the character. The actress who plays Dina takes me out of almost every scene she is in because she always looks like she just stepped out of a Sephora. She could have been a more acceptable counterpart had Ellie been cast a bit better, but she's doing fine enough with what she has to work with. Aside from that and a couple "what the hell are you doing?" type of moments I haven't had much to complain about. I knew part 2 was going to be extremely tough to cram into a mini-series (part 1 was so much easier to adapt and even then they had to cut many pieces out) so I was expecting some of the warts as they came. What has been a relief so far is the actual lack of 'the message' (as criticaldrinker's channel puts it). There is very little preachy identity driven agenda stuff which is nice. Makes his complaining all the more obnoxious to hear. And honestly if you're familiar with the game IP and 'little girl beats big bad man' stuff annoys you, what the **** are you even doing here? That's like going to church and complaining about hearing hymns. Just spare us all and leave. In terms of altering source material, what happens to Joel should never be changed. The entire story of Part 2 is the Yin (hatred, revenge) to Part 1's Yang (loyalty, love). I do wish they had re-tooled or changed the Seraphites in some way to make them as a rival faction more believable. A bunch of amish druids running around whistling in the woods with stone age weapons does NOT strike fear into me nor should it the militia with automatic weapons. Spoiler I'm curious if the character Lev will be cut from Season 3 given that's a huge part of Abby's 'likability' arc. The game got a huge amount of backlash for shoehorning in a 'leave trans ppl alone' story. I'm also curious if they're going to have the time or ability to even include the Rattlers, because they were clearly steamrolled in the game's narrative and cut for time. I also wish Kaitlyn Dever had hit the gym a few times before filming, because her character is wholly un-intimidating.
Non-spoiler season review anyone for someone who never played the games and doesn’t care about source material? I just want to know if it’s a good follow up to the 1st season, does it make sense, have good pacing, acting etc?
Whether from comments on this forum or from the most optimistic reviews I've read online, it was a huge dropoff from S1. To answer your specific questions, the pacing and acting were pretty bad. I think HBO had to know during filming it wasn't going to work.
I think the acting was fine. Even *really* good at parts. I'd probably say roughly on par with S1. But yes, the pacing, writing (i.e., "does it make sense"), etc., are all pretty bad, especially relative to S1. Maybe not even *that* bad technically, but given what it should have been (great source material, big budget, talented people, etc.), it was very disappointing. I expected better from those involved. If you're on the fence, I'd probably just skip it for now. Wait until S3 comes out and get the vibes at that time. Maybe they can turn it around and fix some of the mess they created. If so, then watch S2 and S3 together. If S3 can fix the show, then you can probably just forget the bad stuff in S2. S2 arguably has some of the best scenes/episodes in the entire series, but unfortunately those moments are too few and often surrounded by meh. To add to this, I guess this is a (hopefully minor) spoiler, but S2 does end in a cliffhanger. Even if you did like the entire season, cliffhangers like this kinda suck. I guess another caveat to this is there is one big event that happens early on, which you might not want spoiled. Honestly the season kinda drops off after this, so maybe watch up until that moment (you'll probably know what it is), then stop watching. This is only if you get upset about having stuff spoiled and don't want to wait years while you avoid spoilers.
Appreciate it!! I will skip it and wait to see what season 3 brings. Doing the same with House of the Dragon.
In the game is every militia leader in the post apocalyptic world a woman? Lol I'm not even anti woke but this show in this season, really takes you out of the suspension of disbelief quite dramatically
From what I understand the creator of the game/devs had a woke message as well but the show takes it to a whole new level.
The only current 'leaders' in the show are both men. Tommy and Isaac. The only female leader in the show so far was Kathleen in Kansas City who got deposed lol. I guess you could argue the Seraphites have a female leader but I think that's kind of a precept of their supposed religion. I'm not sure why females being in positions of power requires suspension of disbelief. It's post apocalypse, not the stone age. Power isn't necessarily derived from sheer physical strength.
Yeah I agree with Tommy and Isaac being the clearest examples of believable leaders in this kind of world. But honestly, I do think it’s weird how many female leaders there are (a walking dead complaint as well). In a society that’s collapsed back into survival mode, where strength, violence, and raw dominance matter again, it just doesn’t track that leadership would suddenly be 50/50, or even skew female in some cases. It’s not about whether women can lead because obviously they can, but history shows us that in chaotic, tribal, or wartime settings, men almost always dominate leadership roles. That’s not because they’re better, it’s because those environments reward physical power, hunting skills, and aggression and these are things that generally favor men on average. So when every other group has a female leader, it starts to feel less like organic world building and more like a modern social idea forced into a world that shouldn’t support it.
Right, I completely agree that the more rudimentary a society is the more it will be led by those who can simply marshal the most raw, physical power. But that concept doesn't get very crossways with TLOU's story. In a world with running water, electricity, and (most importantly) guns, you can probably expect females to have a reasonable shot at climbing to positions of power and authority. The one female 'leader' so far in the show, inherited her power from her brother who was the resistance leader in KC. Kathleen didn't just beat the living **** out of people until she was declared chieftain or something. There's more than one way to climb the ladder. Charisma, intelligence, guile, and wisdom count for something. The two parts I will point out where this does kind of feel odd/forced are: Spoiler 1) The meeting of the two high ranking WLF officers after the basement raid gone-awry (that was two females for reasons beyond me). Although the reveal that the doomed squad leader was her son was made more impactful that way. 2) Abby now being tagged as Isaac's heir apparent. That was not part of the game. She was also ripped in the game whereas her actress in the show is decidedly not. I feel like her game physique gave her more credibility as a threat.
Nah there was the two a few episodes ago as well. It was a deposition scene where the woman had a son sealed in where the spores were a problem. Not to mention Abby is named to take over in the last episode. It's just lol worthy.
Look, if a couple of female lieutenants in a militia shatter your disbelief, then the show about mushroom controlled super zombies probably ain't for you.
Lol why you so mad? I have no problems with female leadership just the ham fisted approach. It's laughable but carry on.
Okay, yeah, finally had it with Ellie this season. She's so dumb. Really really dumb. And everyone else is paying the price for her stupidity. Other characters that have more fan support merely for having more than 2 brain cells. I didn't think Ellie was that bad until the season finale, but every scene she was in this episode, she did something stupid and it only got worse. Is the audience supposed to hate Ellie, the protagonist? I was hoping the season could end on a high note. It wasn't terrible like all the doom and gloom naysayers. Episode 6 was good. But this finale, geez, what a stinker. And we have to wait 2 more years? Probably won't care at that point.
Yea, as another poster stated, Ellie was great as a young Ellie but not so much as an older Ellie, the episodes where she moved into the garage was the point she got annoying but wasn't really bad IMO until the last episode, I didn't like the concept of the 7-episode season, but it is what it is and I will be there for next season.............
Spoiler In a way, yes. You're supposed to start disassociating with Ellie. She is driven reckless by her hatred/revenge, though it offers the occasional short-term satisfaction, in the long run it costs her almost everything. Part 2 tries to get people (however unsuccessfully, lol) to grapple with a crisis of conscience, whom do you identify with more? Abby or Ellie. In Season 3 most things will take place from Abby's perspective, and so sympathy for the villain becomes a driving theme. This did not sit well with the neckbeards because she killed their pixelated father-figure, but it was an admirable attempt at a moral dilemma rarely offered in gaming. I agree the 'finale' was weak, but that's because the story was not written to suddenly stop there. There was no natural way to end 'season 2', they just had to pick the best spot they could. I'm disappointed that they haven't taken more narrative liberties to adapt the content to the TV format. Part 2 would be much more accommodating to revision vs. Part 1 IMO, but so far they've stuck to the beats almost note for note (except for the big fight in Jackson Hole, which was largely one of the most well-received parts of season 2, lol).
Spoiler That dilemma is certainly compelling to the audience. The way they've presented that argument for Ellie is not very good, IMO. In the show, she's just been teenage rage/angst and been completely obnoxious towards any rational plans. That article about the problem with Ellie this season helped me remember the stark contrasts of her season 1 pros compared to season 2's cons. She was the top of FEDRA school, trained well by the Fireflies, and extremely resourceful when she was solo after Joel got stabbed. This season, she is a bumbling idiot who struggles against one clicker. Has no plan to travel to Seattle, which is where Dina has to come in with their plan to sneak out, supplies, and route. Stumbles into dangerous situations and has to be saved somehow. I can overlook the goofiness and cringe personality the writers added in, but Ellie lost complete competency this season and has made us hate her character for being insufferable, not because she's on a revenge tour and in an ethical dilemma. The writers are failing to present that message to the audience. Ending the season at a weak point is a production blunder. Either delay the season to be able to film both parts to run back to back, or have a quicker break between season 3 that'll premiere in a few months, not years.
