Who would you rather have a 3 pt Shooting Sengun or Giannis?

I don't know if that's a good way to measure it. A Bucks fan is always going to be more extreme than what they would actually end up getting. 2 months ago they were saying it has to be Sengun and anything else is a non-starter. It's really just an emotional line they're drawing. Same as Rockets fans of course, we think they're going to accept an offer that leaves the rest of the roster ready for the playoffs but the truth is we would have to give up players we don't want to give up.

If a trade is sure to happen and Spurs have a massive offer on the table (say #2, #14, 2 future firsts and Sochan included) then I don't think the Rockets will give up based purely on the gap between Sengun and Amen while letting the Spurs dominate the west for the next 5 years. I don't think any GM would be unhappy to have this much young talent:

Sengun
Giannis
Brooks
Green
Holiday

Bench: 2 of Bari/Tari/Sheppard/Whitmore + Landale + vet min signings

That's 2 x 20pt scorers around Giannis who will never see a double team again. If you're giving up Amen then you're giving up the best piece any team in negotiations can offer so then you get to protect some of your other assets whether a good pick or existing young prospects. That allows you to go get that PG though I'd argue an NTMLE signing at PG is perfectly fine for this starting lineup given Holiday is a capable backup and Sheppard is a high potential one.

I think the Rockets will stand really firm in not giving up Amen but there's realities to this thing. There's not a single young star in the NBA who's a worse fit with Giannis. I'm being very specific here. I know that we can select isolated ways that Amen can help Giannis (cutting well, offensive rebounding, running in transition). All young stars can benefit Giannis in some way or with some of their talents, but if you had to design a perfect young sidekick the last thing you'd want is a guy who like Giannis can't shoot. The perfect skills to surround Giannis is 3PT shooting, iso-scoring and a PnR partner who can shoot.

Not an easy call.

 

Yes now he is and I didnt say **** about Sengun being better than Giannis dumb ****. Try to read what youre actually replying to.

 

For me it's an easy answer - the one that actually exists. Sengun is a very good player, Giannis is a champion and MVP level talent. "3pt Shooting Sengun" is a fantasy created to prop up a player who can't even shoot well from the FT line never mind the 3pt line, he doesn't actually exist, despite all the echo chamber back-patting that that's the "right" answer lmao.

 

Agreed. Sengun had issues finishing all year but still showed out. The only surefire starters next year should be Amen and Sengun. We seriously better not run that ridiculous backcourt again next year.

 

Amen has shown more promise through his 2nd year than Giannis. If Amen becomes Top 5, he will be a better player than Giannis. He is in a completely different tier of prospect and talent than Giannis. That's the issue for the Bucks. Sengun is a more realistic starting point for them.

Asking for Amen is akin to asking for Wemby, Paolo, Chet or Flagg.

 

Amen is showing promise, like any prospect the mystery box is part of the appeal for other GMs. Let's say we're super optimistic and say 50/50 chance that Amen reaches the Giannis ceiling. Giannis is at his ceiling right now. 100% top 5 right now vs a 50/50 chance. I personallly don't think Giannis is a fit here, and probably don't think we should go for him, but for a theortical top 5 guy, no one should be off the table.

And as far as other people saying Amen shouldn't be off the table, they include guys like Athletic's Sam Vecenie. I'm just saying rest of NBA thinks very differently than Rockets fans.

 

The locked on Bucks hosts can count as media, like Gatlin, some of them have media credentials to be in the locker room. In a later post, I also cited the two hosts from Game Theory (athletic), when the Rockets/Giannis topic came up, they also said "Amen shouldn't be off the table".

I'm not saying Amen fans are incorrect, or that Rockets org doesn't believe he's untouchable (at least publicly), I'm just saying the rest of league has Yawnis up on a pedastal. Potential vs what's there now are very different.

I personally, also wouldn't go for him, but it's more because Giannis would cost too much. I can cite other anciliary reasons why Giannis might be problematic, I'm just saying as promising as an Amen or our young guys, he's not at the level of a Wemby or Cade... and that's not an insult. Top 5 or top 10, GMs have to at least think about it.

When making deals, it's what you (a Rockets GM think), but it's also knowing the market value of the guy(s) you have and the guy(s) you want by other GMs. If you over/under estimate too much, then it can be a bad deal.

Rockets is on a good path, so we're not desperate to make moves; these theortical summer threads are just that, theorticals if an opportunity presents itself.

 

How long is Giannis going to be a Top 5 guy and how did a Top 5 guy get bounced by a Pacers team in the East so easily? Giannis is basically Kirklands Brand Hakeem Olajuwon. Disruptor defensively but the offensive arsenal of a Shaquille O'Neal or Dwight Howard without their physical size. His age is a huge factor here on top of the fact that we would probably get bounced again early if we just swapped Amen for him (or Sengun). He's great but this isnt Luka or Zion or Morant that can fit anywhere. He's a very specific player than needs an entire team built around him and frankly there isn't a team out there that has this outside of maybe Indiana or OKC (who clearly dont need him).

He's a great player but an odd fit. I dont think San Antonio trades for him and I dont think the Rockets do either.

 

Yes Giannis is an odd fit. But he's still technically considered a two-way player. Until Amen gets better in some areas, (including FT and offensively), one could argue to build around him is also an odd fit. Pistons see value in his twin, but fit (defense for offense) often comes up over there.

Last year, Sengun made the top 45, all other guys have not cracked top 50. To say some guys are off the table for a top 30 guy is one thing, but for a top 15, 10, or 5, to just shut down the conversation is not something most NBA GMs would do.

I'm not a fan of Giannis, I rather it was a different top 5 guy like a Jokic. But NBA GMs are much higher on Giannis than the folks here are on an Amen. Market value, is more than just what we (Rockets fans) think of someone, it's also how the other side (Bucks GMs/media/fans) view their guy and our guy.

 

That's fine.

For a deal, it takes two to tangle. Amen has mixed results in the playoff, but his mystery box value is what intrigues some GMs, and if folks are more serious on these Giannis deals, he has to be on the table. Just throwing in Jabari, Sengun or Jalen with some picks is not going to to move them. Which is fine by the fan base as many would like to keep the young guys.

Otherwise many of these threads are just not realistic.

 

The entire premise of the thread is unrealistic to be fair, it's comparing an actual Giannis to an imaginary Sengun. In the real world all of the CF takes of "Sengun is way more valuable and a better player than Giannis" take on a different air in all honesty...

 

Seems more like a media fabricated thing than anything. At least to me. Amen is untouchable. It absolutely won't happen and I dont think the Rockets trade him for Giannis straight up. It's almost akin to asking the Spurs to trade Wemby for him or Dallas to trade Cooper. What Amen has done through 2 years is almost unprecedented and we're going to trade that for a 3 year rental of a talented but offensively limited player?

Again....this feels mostly media fabricated. I dont think the Spurs have interest in Giannis. I don't think the Rockets have interest in Giannis. At least not what he'd command. If im the Spurs, I just draft Harper and trade Castle. The Rockets should focus on a player that fits their team more than Giannis does.

I actually think the interest in trading for Giannis is going to be much smaller than the Bucks fans think. He's just not a functional "superstar".

 

Don't even get the point of this thread. Sengun has played 4 full seasons and has done nothing to suggest he can shoot 3s at a level that will make defense care. Much less good enough to be a weapon outside. I have more faith at this point that Amen will be able to shoot > 35% at some point in his career compared to Sengun.

 

You seem to be struggling with the concept of people wanting to gut the team for Giannis because as currently constructed the team won't go too far.

I pointed out Giannis doesn't quite achieve that desire, and showed why with Giannis' relevant playoff history the past 4 years.

Comprehension is hard

 

Our supporting cast is better than the Bucks. In addition, they set the franchise back when Budenholzer was fired.
Injuries between Lillard and Giannis these past couple of postseason runs has deterred their success as well.
Giannis is a generational player.
Sengun is not...we can find another Sengun, but Giannis is a gem - depending on the cost you should definitely go after

 

Today I learned a SG averaging 21 points and 3.4 assists on 54.4 TS% is a disaster

But

A Center averaging 19 points and 4.9 assists on the exact same TS% is "showing out". Even though the team is built around him, we play at the pace that suits him and we're hiding his defense.

That's the difference between catastrophic and showing out, it's not emotional at all huh lol

 

It's good that you are learning that there is more than raw offensive stats when it comes to basketball.

Sengun was 14th in the NBA in BPM, Jalen was 86th

Sengun was 12th in VORP, Jalen was 68th

Sengun was 19th in win shares...which is a compilation metric that rewards those who play more, Jalen was 74th...despite playing several hundred minutes more than Sengun.

 

The Rockets pace in Silas final year was 16th in the NBA. In Udoka's 2 seasons, 13th and 18th in the league. So clearly Ime isn't doing anything that Silas wasn't already doing.

Rockets with Sengun on the floor and Jalen off the floor has a 98 defensive rating. With Jalen on the floor and Sengun off the floor the Rockets have a 114 defensive rating. So at the very least Sengun is good enough for the team to hide his defensive deficiency. The same could not be said for Jalen unfortunately.