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The U.S. Brain Drain: How Policies Are Driving Talent Away

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Amiga, Mar 21, 2025.

  1. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Beats the heck outta me.

    I'm hoping we pull through for all Americans.
     
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  2. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    It's not dystopian - we'll still rank very high in overall spending - but it's a shock to the system, and the trend is clearly downward. We don't actually know the full state of basic R&D in 2025 due to all the chaos, but we do know that there have been significant cuts. If the reported severe reductions are accurate, China is very likely to surpass the U.S. - not just because it continues to increase its research investment, but even more so because of the sharp pullback on the U.S. side.

    It's also important to distinguish between private and public R&D. Private R&D typically focuses on short-term, market-driven goals. Public R&D, on the other hand, is where the game-changing breakthroughs usually come from - like the Internet, GPS, the microchip, nuclear power, modern medicine and vaccines (mRNA, cancer treatments, antibiotics, antivirals, imaging, DNA analysis), gene editing, AI and machine learning, quantum computing, and the mapping of the human genome.
     
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  3. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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  4. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    The EU starting to realize what a gift we are giving them.

    (gift article)

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/05/...e_code=1.E08.TgZK.EeQGAKsS2134&smid=url-share
     
  5. strosb4bros

    strosb4bros Member

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    I wonder what Macron thought of how those DEI students acted after getting a cake walk entry based on immutable characteristics

    Asians , the actual brain power, are discriminated against so Joy Reid can feel empowered as a run of the mill rambling person

    So Khalil can play pretend

    You can't ignore the whole death to America while we use and abuse it for Marxist ideological reasons

    It's a bold but necessary move , which will likely be temporary, to atleast put some fear in losers like Khalil and make complete incompetents like Claudine Gay think twice before gaming the system

    If you want to study in the US, respect the host nation and try to integrate
     
  6. strosb4bros

    strosb4bros Member

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  7. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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  8. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    History lesson: The U.S. didn’t develop the first nuclear bomb because it had the best scientists. Europe had them - in Germany, Austria, Hungary, Denmark. Some were even in the Soviet Union. But they came to America. Not for money. Not for power. They came for freedom, especially academic freedom.

    That made the difference. It gave the U.S. the edge in the most dangerous race of the century. If they hadn’t come here... if the U.S. hadn’t been the place where ideas were free... it could have been Hitler or Stalin with the bomb first. Imagine that version of history.

    Now comes the biggest race in human history - the race for AI. What a perfect time to start pushing talent away.

    https://hongkongfp.com/2025/05/23/h...eign-enrolment-at-oldest-american-university/

    The Hong Kong University of Science and Technology (HKUST) on Friday said it “opens doors to Harvard students amid global academic shifts,” as the Trump administration escalated its standoff with Harvard by blockling the school’s ability to enrol international students.
     
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  9. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Recent study shows what we suspected would happen in Florida. Not a stretch to now extrapolate to all of US academia.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    The trump administration's massive cuts to medical research are an act of madness, in my opinion. More information in the video below:

    Health expert calls Trump's medical research cuts "reckless destruction"

     
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  11. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    A friend who works at a research-heavy grant-driven state university notes 75% of the professors promoted to tenured positions this spring are women and at least a third of those are looking to move to another country. Suspicion is the number is higher. And I would bet some of the guys are considering it too--how could they not? (Note: apparently only two of the promotions came from the liberal arts while the rest were STEM or STEM related.)
     
  12. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    This trend will continue for quite awhile, but not for the reasons you mentioned.
     
  13. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Enlighten me.
     
  14. Buck Turgidson

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    Good luck waiting for that response
     
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  15. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    We have reached peak American exceptionalism. But first, let me state that the education system as a whole is extremely dated and modern technology has made a significant portion obsolete. The best innovation is coming from small startups, often with founders who dropped out of university. (Much like NBA superstars who do the one and done then go straight into the NBA). University has become a status symbol for those who want to circle jerk on linked-in.

    But ultimately that isn't the United States biggest problem. Almost any information in the world can be transferred in less than a millisecond. Money and idea's flow freely around the globe at the same speed. 100 years ago, it would take days or even weeks to transfer large amounts of data. Compression is exponential.
    Unfortunately the US government lives in a different world. A very stupid world. Dated policies are entrenched in time, forever creating drag on innovation. Career politicians, elected back in a very different era, refuse to give up their thrones. And this is all before we get into the intentional design of a slow moving system.
    Governments who can move quickly on policy decisions will fair better. It won't be the good ol style of American Democracy that we spread with the tip of a barrel. It will be efficiently ran governments who promote the well being of the country as a whole over special interest groups.

    More and more privileged Americans will consider other countries to call home. Many people I know who are part of a multi-generational american family have talked about moving to other countries.
     
  16. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    This is such an amazingly bad and bleak take posted with such earnestness I confess I can't tell if you are trolling or actually believe the stuff you just spewed. A couple of points if you are serious:

    The world is not just tech and it is certainly not just tech innovation as you describe it here. You are describing applications, not learning. You need the latter before the former is possible. And really, most of the innovations out there are ways to either steal intellectual property from creators or figure out ways to siphon money out of people's pocketbooks. (I could also argue that many "one and done" NBA players don't know squat about the finer points of the game and have arrived at their position through mere physical talent just as many college dropout "innovators" who have no clue--or care--about how their actions affect the world have become so because of family wealth, often combined with a high degree of hucksterism and sociopathy.)

    Another big flaw here is that you also confuse data with knowledge. Yes, data can be moved quickly. But who produces the data? Why is the data created? You can take all the remote sensing and GIS data in the world but only with human expertise spending hours looking at images and comparing what they see with earlier versions and applying their real-world experience and knowledge can you identify where Russians have made mass graves for Ukrainian civilians. Yes, we can take all the information that currently exists on every type of cancer and move it around the world in seconds. However, that doesn't get us any closer to a cure than where we are right now. To push the field forward, you need a bunch of smart people working in a research facility sharing ideas with a bunch of other smart people working in research facilities, which is the kind of thing that universities do best. They do it best in part because their motivating factor is knowledge, not ideology or profit.

    You then go off on tangents that convey a not-so-subtle love of authoritarianism where you get to move fast and ignore the special interest groups you disagree with. That's not going to work long-term. Never does, especially in a large and complex country with such a long history of democracy. That kind of approach can do a hell of a lot of damage though, which I guess you are happy to see going on right now.

    If you are just a troll, congrats, you got a response so I guess that makes you a "winner."
     
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  17. astros123

    astros123 Member

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  18. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    This guy's brain is completely cooked - has no idea what he is doing - who is the President? Stephen Miller? Elon?

    REPORTER: When could the administration resume interviews for foreign students visa?

    TRUMP: On what?

    REPORTER: Foreign student visas

    TRUMP: For the French?

    REPORTER: All the foreign students

    TRUMP: What are you referring-- foreign visas for what?
     
  19. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Brain drain in real time
     
  20. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    We tend to look at it from a purely academic perspective, but when you add the economic (money follows brains) and the national security concerns, it becomes much. much worse.

    Four months in and already it is not fixable in a full presidential term or probably three or four or more. We have ceded the high ground and screwed ourselves for decades.
     

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