Marc Spears: Two teams to keep an eye out for if Celtics make changes: Rockets and Spurs

Jaylen brown?

 

That's interesting but a pipe dream in reality. Jalen is not being traded for anything less than a star.

If Amen wants to get out of the dunker's spot, he has to learn to shoot for as long as Sengun is here. You can live with a C who can't hit the 3 being the only non-shooter on the floor, but you can't routinely put the ball in the hands of a wing/PG who can't shoot the 3 while your C is neither a vertical or spacing threat. That squad you've designed there would go down even more easily to the Warriors. It's an atrocious offensive team. Amen was 15.7 points on just 12 shots with his man cheating off him often, meanwhile Sengun was 21 points on 19 shots on single coverage. Now take the double teams Jalen was drawing and apply it to any of these two guys, their efficiency gets even worse than that. We'll never get out of the first round that way.

13 points on 12 shots + drawing a double team for 6 out of 7 games is offensively better than
15.7 points on 12 shots while being half-guarded for 7 games

And this was a nightmare matchup for Jalen and a favorable one for Amen (he was always guarded by the worst of their defenders). If you're trading the only guy who drew a double team routinely, it should be for someone who beats double teams routinely. Without that you're just shuffling things around to fail at the same experiment in a different way. Jalen is also tied for best catch and shooter on the team at 40% on 5-ish attempts (with Brooks). Why would we trade him for an older catch and shooter? Doesn't make any sense.

Sorry but Amen is not there yet. Until he develops a 3 or we surround him with 4 shooters, he's a swiss army knife type. For him to play PG, the floor has to be spaced and his teammates have to be good at playing in a high pace otherwise they'll always be trailing. Sengun at the 5, Collins at the 4, Jabari at the 3 and Holiday at the 1 are not out-running anyone at their position. If you're 4-out and playing at a high pace, Jalen would ascend every bit as much - if not more - than Amen. He would still be our leading scorer and he would be more efficient than ever. It would happen for the same reason that you're attempting to achieve spacing and pacing for Amen.

Let's be frank for a moment, Amen has never shouldered a significant number of FGA as a lead offensive creator. Doing well on 10 attempts is not the same as doing well on 17-18 attempts while the opponent is geared towards stopping you. I do believe he can do it in a 4-out system where he dominates the ball himself. I do not believe he can do that in a 3-out system even if the other 3 shooters are elite. If we're going the 3-out route, then let's go all in on Giannis because that's a guy who can do everything Amen can do at a superstar level and it will generate an advantage for everyone else.

 

I get

I get your point. I just disagree on Amen capabilities. People forget how long it took for Ime to see the light with him. He would absolutely unlock the PnR with Sengun and since both are great passers, 3 out would be just fine. I agree it’s unlikely the Rockets trade Green in a package for less than a star, but at the very least FVv needs to go. FVV’s inability to get to the rim is a huge disadvantage. Even with all the lane packing, Amen could still get his shot pretty much at will. Ime just does not make him the facilitator he needs to be. He should be initiating the offense virtually every time he comes down the floor. In reality, we are going to waste another year with FVV getting 35-40 minutes a game playing with his food. YAWN

 

There's no successful PnR with two non-shooters. Both defenders just drop back and allow any of our two to take the jumper. Doesn't create any advantage. You're better off letting any of them take the jumper the defense will give them at the start of the shot clock.

I believe Amen can get his shot in a crowded paint but I don't believe he can get it in one of the most crowded paints in the league at a high enough volume and efficiency. If we were 15th overall spacing and just one of the worst out of the 16 playoff teams, I can see it. We're not that. We're a lot worse than that. Only MVP candidates can drive and score efficiently at a high volume in our set up and they would still be scoring at a lower efficiency than they'd normally be scoring. Nothing to be ashamed of. Amen is still 22. The coach should be helping him. Hell the coach should help anyone he believes in to be the top scorer.

I really don’t want to run it back unless Sengun is taking 2-3 3PA a game (efficiency be damned just get him out of the paint more) and Amen is pushing the pace. The time for building around Alpi's game is over.

I think they really want Giannis though and if he's available they'll trade anything for him.

 

Alpi is still just 22. Curry is 37. Jokic is 30.

Im more than ok running it back and being patient watching this group grow.

 

How long are you willing to wait is the real question? 3 years? 4 years? When is the right time to make a move or two to compete? Every year the Phoenix picks will get less valuable. Phoenix seems to be content to be mediocre and the return for Durant will probably make them a bit better than last year. Especially if they get a PG in return.

 

You and I are on the same page, just slight differences on how to get there. I view Ime and FVV as our greatest impediments to getting better. If Sengun is never going to be able to shoot, I would try to trade him for a center that can. People beat the hell out of me for it, but I’d do Sengun for Adebayo and Herro tomorrow if it was offered. I don’t really want Giannis if it’s going to cost us much more than Sengun. Unfortunately, they are going to extend FVV and as long as he is commanding 30+ minutes a game we are screwed.

 

Adebayo and Herro are intriguing but I'd give Sengun and Amen one more season to see if they can hit the 3 because any of them doing that opens the floor for all 3 scorers.

I, too, see Udoka as the biggest obstacle but not an eternal one. I think he must improve for us to win and it has nothing to do with having stars. He lost a Finals with 2 stars vs a less talented team with 1 star. He lost that series because he's a bad offensive coach despite being elite defensively. That same core won a title without him by letting go of 4 of his favorite players - all the resident tough guys.

I don't think he has an infinite leash. The novelty of his defense will wear off if he can neither develop players nor improve the offense tactically. The NBA is brutal, how many people have been fired less than 2 years after winning COTY? But I do think without a star he'll always have that excuse so I hope they go out and get a star so that we can get to the answer sooner.

I really love this core but it's a waste of time watching Sengun posting up, Jalen Green being a jump shooter and Amen being a Swiss army knife. I know for a fact after watching Julius Randle in the playoffs that our guy made bad choices. He's a negative on offense.

 

I get it but I think the coach is offensively bad and if he doesn't change then the results won't change much. He's lost with the Celtics so I'm not sure how he'll win with this core which is very similar. I think if we're sticking with Udoka then we have to get an elite playmaker who will essentially ignore him and outsmart him.

 

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45196710/sources-celtics-jaylen-brown-partial-meniscus-tear

Boston Celtics star Jaylen Brown finished the season with a partially torn right meniscus, sources told ESPN.

Brown had been playing in pain during the last month of the regular season and the playoffs, which concluded with Friday's Game 6 loss to the New York Knicks in the Eastern Conference semifinals.

He will be evaluated this week to determine if surgery is needed, sources said.

ESPN previously reported that Brown had received pain injections in his knee. Those injections began in March, sources said.

 

Wow, the Jays were snakebit this season--and both of them will probably miss a significant portion of next season.

Celtics are in an awkward spot--sitting past the second apron for a team that might miss the playoffs next season.

 

Huge contract and bad meniscus? His trade value has certainly dropped, at least until more is known.

 

White's a nice player...a complimentary piece to be sure though. A glorified role player who contributes to the bottom line...winning.
Shooting and D...
I'd put Grimes alongside him, as far as talent.
Similar skills.
Neither are a closer with serious ballhandling abilities.

Booker is.

I'd don't like Brown's history with those knees...and that contract. The time is long past to hop on that bus.

 

But they own their own pick. So nba…..

 

Boston isn’t trading anyone we would want. Injury-prone Porzingis, and 35 yr old Jru Holiday coming off his worst season. That’s who Boston likely making available. Even Jaylen Brown wouldn’t be worth trading much for given he’s way overpaid on that super-max contract. I just don’t see a trade with Boston that helps us. They aren’t trading Derrick White. He’s on a value contract and they are trying to cut costs. Holiday and Porzingas make over $70 mil between them and White is better than both.

 

30 years

 

He needs to get stem cell treatment in Boston and shut it down until he is healed. As someone with no meniscus left in both knees I can tell you how the story ends.

 

If price being equal, I'd much rather have Grimes over Derrick White - I think much of what White was able to do the past two seasons was in large part because of how much attention Tatum and Brown commanded and White was just able to fill in spots playing his role to a T. Like you said, glorified role player - but that makes him a bit overrated. Put him on this Rockets team where we don't have a true #1 or even #2 option yet, and players like White will struggle tremendously. With Grimes, even if he isn't as experienced, you know he will be able to generate his own offense.

 

I wonder if Philly would do a Dillon for Grimes sign and trade?

 

I would think if there is a sign and trade, it still wouldn't be for Dillon's salary because even his salary is too much for Philly to absorb. Maybe Grimes (sign and trade) for something like Jock (expiring), Holiday (expiring), and Cam.