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Its sad we cant win without

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by BigMaloe, Apr 29, 2025.

  1. MettaWorldPete

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    Couldn't agree more, and also weren't some of these dudes on the team when Silas was coaching? That's more wasted offensive development. I'm extremely confident if we trade these players to a better offensive coach, they'll look a lot better.
     
  2. MettaWorldPete

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    I don't follow the draft, so this is not a rhetorical question-are any of the people we passed on balling out? That would really suck.
     
  3. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Sengun took so many shots for the same reason that Fred has taken so many shots in the past... and the same reason that Jalen has at times. The Rockets lack an offensive player that can carry them from game to game and someone has to take the shots. If Jalen isn't going to take them or perform well, that means Sengun or Fred will take them.
    This has nothing to do with Udoka having a good or bad offensive system, this is about the Rockets having no one that can run an offense or carry the scoring load consistently in the playoffs. It was supposed to be Green - but he had 5 turnovers and was 3-8 from the field. Watching Sengun and then Fred take the last shots, again was all I needed to see.

    The only good thing is that there will be changes made and every effort will be made to get someone in that is capable of carrying a #1 type load and that will help everyone in the pecking order.
     
  4. mtbrays

    mtbrays Member
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    The two obvious examples are Evan Mobley and Scottie Barnes. Both were picked immediately after Jalen Green and have been all-stars.

    Jalen Williams is a lesser example in 2022 because I don't think anyone expected him to make an all-star team this early when he was picked at #12.
     
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  5. sealclubber1016

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    If Jalen isn't scoring, WTF is he even doing.

    He plays OK defense when he's locked in, poor most of the time. Doesn't shoot consistently enough to have big gravity, doesn't move off ball, doesn't rebound, doesn't run PnR well. If he isn't a top scoring option, he's just a guy...and he's getting paid a lot to do that. There are a ton of NBA players than can score 20 PPG if given 15-20 shots to do it.

    I just don't understand what his role on a team is supposed to be if he's not a top scorer. The Warriors are shutting him a down with even the slightest bit of defensive focus.
     
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  6. Nook

    Nook Member

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    There are no guarantees.

    Consider that the Rockets could have easily lost the Green pick to OKC.

    I would have taken Mobley over Green as well - and while he is the better player, he wouldn't be helping with the offensive issues very much.

    Jabari Smith was the guy most people would have taken - and its obvious that Stone wanted Banchero. While Banchero isn't perfect, he looks like he can be an offensive hub/scorer in the playoffs - he has had some huge games and will carry a load.

    I agree on Amen being the no brainer as well.

    The reality though is that these players do not fit well together and none of them are franchise players - there has never been a lot of detail to what Stone's plan is, and I think that is a mistake as these are pieces of a puzzle.

    At this point - it may be the first real time that Stone is forced to make a decision that is not "safe". It is clear as day to everyone that the Rockets have nice pieces, a good coach and good culture but are completely without anyone at this point that is a franchise player at this point. That may lead Stone to make a dicey trade for someone that can carry the load.

    Hell - the Warriors have the 1st, 2nd and 4th best players in this series - that is why they are winning.
     
  7. MettaWorldPete

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    Damn that's really disappointing.

    Love your pfp. I have that hat and it's my favorite.
     
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  8. gfab-babyboi

    gfab-babyboi Member
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    Did you say this Game 1 when Alpi had 5 TOs and Bari 4 and Amen 3

    or Game 3 when Amen had 4 TO and FVV had 3 TO

    Kerr changed his scheme to start game to pressure and force JG to his weak hand and jump the pass to Alpi in middle of floor (Ime as always is too slow to react) after 2nd TO he should of called a timeout and got JG off ball …specially since we weren’t giving him any screens coming up court

    Kerr goated Ime into blinking 3x this series - he’s all but eliminated JG because Rockets have no offensive plan to create open looks for him consistently

    He goes small so we play through Alpi - scoring 0-2 points and limiting FGA for all other Rockets outside of FVV while GS are taking 2x the 3s we are and hanging around

    Removing Adams - Ime should have 1 at least waited til we were in bonus and 2. Let Adams goto the line 2-3x to see if he got in a rhythm like he’s done multi times this season and broken then hack A Adams
     
  9. MettaWorldPete

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    I wonder what Sengun's offensive role will be when we get a real leader. I assume it will have to be noticeably different than his current role, but he isn't an outside shooter or big time rim runner.
     
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  10. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Basically just Jalen- Alpe and Tate.

    Bari and Tari only for 1 year.

     
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  11. mtbrays

    mtbrays Member
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    It's important that we remember the depths this organization was in not too long ago. Perspective usually calms nerves.

    Tillman bought the team and immediately clashed with Daryl Morey. The latter, who made his name with a cold, data-driven approach to team-building got emotionally attached to his superstar. He let that superstar force a crippling trade that, as you point out, could've murdered us for a decade. Daryl resigned, Stone was appointed, Harden sulked, and we hit rock bottom. Never getting the #1 pick forced us into talent-accumulation mode which meant we were buying separate puzzle pieces instead of a complete set.

    When you're down as bad as we were you also have to overpay for free agents who are willing to overlook organizational shortcomings. Fred and Dillon were paid a premium to come here and instill some kind of culture among a team full of young guys and cancers like KPJ. We did catch a lucky break with Udoka hurting his reputation; there's no way a Finals-caliber coach would've willingly come to Houston when he did.

    Now it's time to shake up the puzzle pieces and see if we can use them to acquire somebody who can, in the most simple terms, go and get us a bucket when it matters most.
     
    #91 mtbrays, Apr 29, 2025
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2025
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  12. Nook

    Nook Member

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    These issues did not start with Kerr or the Warriors, they have been around for four years.

    Jalen Green has no mid-range game, he can be kept out of the lane with physical play.

    Jalen Green is 100% tied to his outside shot - his success is completely tied to that and he is who the Rockets count on for scoring and run their offense through.

    Green in this series has had 8 points.... 9 points..... 38 points and 7 points in the four games played..... in game 4, he only took 8 shots in 25 minutes, made 3 of them and had 5 turnovers. That just isn't remotely good enough for someone that the offense runs through, and that is why he only got 25 minutes last night. Outside of his 38 game point explosion in game 2, he has been unplayable.... he is 10 for 34 from the field in the other three games.

    In the 3 loses, Green has shot 2 for 14 from 3 and 2 for 5 from the free throw line in 95 minutes on the floor.

    I am not blaming Udoka for running the offense through Sengun last night at all down the stretch.

    We can complain about taking so many too many two point shots or how Udoka should have taken Green off ball, how they pressured his weak hand all we want - it all comes back to the same thing, Jalen Green has way too many weaknesses and flaws in his game to lead the offense when he isn't shooting really well outside. When you can be pressured and taken out of your game so easily, you are not the person that should be running the offense.

    None of that is on Udoka - and next year they will either scale back what Jalen is expected to do, or he will be moved in a deal to bring in someone that is better equipped to handle the responsibility.

    Having said all of this - I am not claiming Udoka is some sort of offensive savant - and he may well need or want an offensive coach, but at this point we don't even get there because the most important traits are missing from the equation - a franchise player and shooting.
     
  13. Nook

    Nook Member

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    The Rockets are in a lot better position than a handful of years and have assets and valuable players - some of which will continue to improve. That shouldn't be lost when pointing out that the Rockets have some needs.
     
  14. gfab-babyboi

    gfab-babyboi Member
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    it’s on the coaching staff to counter what GS is doing, GS has all but eliminated JG catch and shoot 3s (the only looks he get is on offensive rebounds) once the ball goes inside to Alpi or Amen drives it’s not being kicked back out (hence the FGA of JG DB Bari and Tari) 5 FGA from our bench is embarrassing

    Game 2 we set the most screens we have set this series which allowed JG to get downhill vs Draymond or Post and get to rim …. Game 3 Kerr corrected it by putting Post / Draymond under rim and using Moody or Hield as the man to step up after JG beats Curry or GPJ (JG made right reads but we missed 31 shots in paint and FTs)

    Game 4, exact same thing as Game 3 except they forced JG to his weak hand (left) and jumped the passes to Alpi with a smaller player ….

    Rockets made no adjustments - we don’t run no plays, every play start with the same action it’s predictable and easy to defend

    as far as shooting - we don’t get our shooters enough FGA (DB and Bari should be over 10 FGA a game with more than half from 3) Amen should be limited to putback, and drives …Alpi should be limited to right above the circle at this point….
     
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  15. Nook

    Nook Member

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    A big reason the Rockets wanted to go to the playoffs this season was to see how their core players responded in the playoffs - how players like Green, Sengun and Thompson performed. The idea being that it would allow them to get a better idea of where the Rockets are and what they need to do going forward. It is also why I am skeptical of claims that Udoka will get the blame for a first round loss. The front office and coach had this plan going into the season and it has been discussed numerous times. So - that is why you are not seeing a lot of substitutions.

    As for your points about adjustments and counters - I am not going to tell you that Udoka is going to be great at adjustments. When he was on the Celtics he made some very good adjustments in the playoffs, but I was critical of some of the lack of adjustments in the Finals. Having said that, I have seen coaches like Ty Lue at times looks dead at making adjustments, and at other times be literally the best in the league at it.

    Having said that - there isn't a lot you can do when you are going to play your core guys heavy minutes to get film on them in a playoff situation, when your best offensive player - the guy you run your offense through by default is 100% at the mercy of his outside shooting, when he has no middle range game, when he doesn't go to the line and when he can be physically impacted in the lane.

    There are just way too many flaws from a personnel standpoint on the offensive side for me to really have any strong opinions on Udoka as an offensive coach. The players do not fit well, they do not shoot well from the perimeter, there are limited creators, the best creator who you run the offense through isn't good enough consistently - and your team doesn't even hit free throws.
     
  16. gfab-babyboi

    gfab-babyboi Member
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    Tape is going to be horrid then for all players

    Hopefully Stone sees what we all see, you need multiple guys who can drive into paint and finish or create … we have 1 (JG)

    Get a PG who teams can’t just face guard at 3pt line … who is a threat to finish at the rim on PNR …who cares more about his assist than his PPG

    put Bari back into the starting lineup - decide if you are ready to move on from DB if so then Amen goes there or you bring in Cam Johnson / KD

    Sit Alpi and JG down and decide if either can be the alpha and if so create an offense to cater to their best abilities.

    Let Holiday, Jeff Green etc etc go … if Ime not going to use them in playoffs we don’t need them hindering development of younger players -and need to get players Ime will play in playoffs
     
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  17. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I agree with you on all points.

    I think the hardest situations is going to be trading for someone that can be the alpha on offense - luck is going to be a big part of that.

    Do the Rockets go after LeMelo Ball? He isn't a winning player at all right now, but he does have that type of upside.

    Do the Rockets go after a 37 year old Durant? Do they go after Zion knowing that he doesn't really care about basketball?

    It is all hard to figure out - but I do know that they will only have this many assets for a short period of time..... I look back on the Sixers for example when they blew their assets on trading for Jimmy Butler but not resigning him - I think that cost them at least one title.... and now, they are about to collapse again after almost a decade of preparing and not winning.... I want the Rockets to avoid that.
     
  18. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    We could certainly win without him if Kerr was our coach. I guarantee guys like Brooks and Jabari would be getting more shot opportunities and guys like Jeff Green, Holiday, and Cam wouldn't have been glued to the bench.
     
  19. Dobbizzle

    Dobbizzle Member

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    Crap tactic, the Gorilla's going straight through and getting to us. At least put somebody at the front who's going to offer some resistance.
     
  20. HoustonSportsAddict

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    I don’t even agree with Kerr > Udoka.

    Kerr has coached a team with generational talent. Any team with Stephen curry is going to be a contender of some sort if the roster is built in a balanced way (Bob Myers).

    Kerr wasn’t handed a team that literally couldn’t win 20 games. That team is now the second seed in the western conference without a true super star.
     
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