Ya this is why we still have the Boer state of South Africa exist today. You don't know how effective divestment and sanctions can be apparently. What is stopping the Aparthied state from collapsing is the United States preventing any form of divestment and sanctions on the Aparthied state. In South Africa this dream seemed out of reach until the Western wold decided it was enough and started divesting from South Africa. The Aparthied state of Israel has all the leverage precisely because of US hegomonic power preventing any leveraged power on the Palestinian side. The country we are citizens of and having voting power in has the power to dismantle the Aparthied state. The United States is a global hegomony with 11 nuclear powered naval carriers and 100+ military bases in foreign lands. It can end the Aparthied regime any times it wants.
Ya man no non-bigot is going to say Jewish people inherently genocidal because some bat **** knesset members talk about melting Palestinians as a whole.
Pretty sure in Texas a mob chasing after someone and yelling, "Death to..." would qualify as sufficient just cause to pull out your Glock and kill a bunch of MFers.
No behavior is inherent based on race or ethnicity. People have a choice in their behavior. People don't think the Palestinians have some sort of uncontrollable impulse to attack Jews, it is a conscious decision.
As for Apartheid in South Africa, it is a lot more complicated than most would think. The whites that could leave, left South Africa within a decade of black South Africans having the right to vote and govern. The wealthy ruling class in South Africa left, they took their wealth, familiarity with governing and connections with them. Foreign investment in South Africa completely cratered. The white Africans that remained had the land taken from them and some of the black SA that inherited the land did not know how to farm well. The black SA had not been educated to rule. As a result, post Apartheid SA was set up to fail —and it largely has been a massive failure. There is foreign investment from China - and some economic indicators are positive but overall South Africa is a mess. It isn’t a mess for the reason some right wingers claim - but it also hasn’t been this joyous success as some on the left claim. You cannot enslave a people - rape their culture, limit their education and attack their human value and then say “my bad” and walk away and think it’s a happy ending. I have also heard some say it was racist for wealthy white people to leave SA once apartheid ended. If I were white- I would have left SA also.. but I would have if I were black as well.
Perhaps folks think they will kill all the Jews because that's exactly what they have been explicitly saying they will do all along as soon as the opportunity arises. I've begun to reconsider my position on the 2-state solution, as well, albeit for extremely different reasons.
I would agree, save this: Being that the decision to act in accordance with your conditioning effectively enslaves you to it by relinquishing control of your inner state to over it, I would posit that it is rather essentially the very decision to be unconscious.
That is EXACTLY the strategy of Hamas: the actual worst people for Palestinians from the very beginning.
Yes I understand you believe Palestinians are subhuman barbarians predisposed to genocide Jews as a genetic predisposition of their people. I get that. I'm saying every oppressive entity in power that did an ethnic cleansing or genocide said the same thing about the group they genocides, ethnicity cleansed or enslaved. Keep in mind that Confederate Plantation owners made the same argument about freeing slaves. "They gonna kill us all if we let them go". This concept that there exists some vocally load people that express unhinged things about the other side can be a endless turn for tat. For every quote you can find from a 1987 document of unhinged stuff about Jews I can find modern Knesset members saying unhinged things about Arabs, Muslims or Palestinians and by your own logic that would imply Israelis are too barbaric for self determination. But hey let's see how your plan of perpetual dehumanization of Palestinians and not letting them have basic civil rights leads us.
Hamas is to Palestine what MAGA had hoped Antifa would be for the US. The Hamas leadership is oddly enough mostly residing in the UAE or Qatar and the Israel hard right and Netanyahu did everything in their power to ensure Hamas was elevated in order to help them politically. Yes there politically is real anger harnessed by the Palestinians that Hamas speaks to but at least most people I know who are Palestinian or have family there wants nothing to do with Hamas and will almost all acknowledge the damage they do to provide fodder for Netanyahu to weaponize. Just like here ideologically almost all liberal pro-democratic people are surely anti-fascism, to our credit we have done a good job of not taking the bait to align with this made up boogeyman that is only manufactured to be a foil for MAGA extremists. The mistake made years ago was not having a strong political opposition party in Palestine that could thwart off Hamas winning that one election. Now they have to be defined by that one election… kind of like how now Americans for generations will be defined by allowing Trump and MAGA being elected… fcking twice.
You and your absolutist righteous indignation! It's ok, it's your thing. I'm sorry to be the one to burst your unfortunately ignorant, aimlessly afloat morality bubble, but people infinitely more serious, invested, and informed on this situation than anyone on CF.net are beginning to have doubts concerning whether or not a 2-state solution remains the prudent or even viable solution moving forward. I'd love to hear your honest responses to some questions I have, if you are so inclined: We all know every iteration of Palestinian leadership {save the one who was assassinated for accepting it} has rejected every offer for a 2-state solution they've ever received over the entirety of almost a hundred years of the existence of the State of Israel. Have the Palestinians suddenly become amenable to accepting terms that roughly resemble any of those offered by Israel over that span, or are their demands still significantly out of line with them? On the other hand, do you think it reasonable to ask Israel - in the wake of the outrageously barbaric terrorist attacks explicitly and proudly targeting children and a music festival literally celebrating peace that wrought the deadliest day in Jewish history since the Holocaust***{see below} - to keep the same offer on the table with the perpetrators of the attack in perpetuity? How can any deal with the terrorist organization - who's recent attack broke the standing peace agreement at the time was immediately followed by rejoicefully bragadocious assurances that they will not hesitate to break whatever agreement happens to be in place whenever comes the time at which point they are ready to carry out another terrorist attack {for which they are currently preparing} - be struck in good faith? Do you believe in a 2-state solution with the current leadership situation in Gaza? Do you believe Hamas should be eradicated, and if so, what do you believe is possible to achieve in the meantime? Can you please tell me how this works? Your statement is sort of accurate when interpreted a certain way: Anyone who believes in a 2-state solution or ANY solution that doesn't at least include the full operational disempowerment and structural dissolution - but really the total eradication - of Hamas is gravely serious... That is not a person serious about peace, however, but rather about the elimination of the Jewish people. Y'all aren't stupid. You know what will happen. They broadcast it because they are proud of it. They are proud of it not because they are biologically predisposed to being in a death cult, but because they are sadly deeply committed to an identity built around the narrative with which they have been conditioned - just like every other person in the history of mankind is until they find the second force to challenge it. ***a fact which, in and of itself, exponentially increases the urgency and pressure to ensure the survival of our 6,000 year old tribe by protecting it from those always and many who would see it wiped from the face of the planet, and not long after we had just so recently come THIS close to the brink of losing it if not for dodging that bullet by getting lucky only NEARLY HALF of our ENTIRE population {which was only 15 million people before the war in the first place} was systematically exterminated***
Hey man, that isn't my logic - it's your straw man's. Can we please have respect enough for each other, ourselves, and the current situation to refrain from the other person what they believe after making it up with absolutely zero basis in anything they've ever said? I'd really like to have a respectful discourse, but that thing you tend to do makes it impossible.
Nah. Maga and Hamas are not comparable. Maga is a accumulation of insecure men questioning their identity in a modern economy that doesn't hand that identity to you on a silver platter like it did in previous generations where young men would be married with children by the time they are 21. But these people have self determination. They have never feared 2000 lb ordinance drops from the sky leveling their neighborhood. Hamas is a result of abject oppression. It is an inevitable outcome of what happens when group of people are stripped of self determination, basic civil rights like due process and being turned to homeless refugees for consecutive generations.
Strip vocabulary like "terrorist". Incorporate humanistic ideals to this situation like comparing civilian deaths of Palestinians vs Israelis for the past 50 years and see which side has a larger web of feeling terror, rage, extreme sadness from losing loved ones. Which group has had their basic freedom of movement suppressed? Their basic ability to education and employment in a dignified life stripped from them? And even then with all those horrible things happening to Palestinians they still have better literacy rates than Israeli citizens somehow. You have dehumanized Palestinians enough. They are people who can experience pain and suffering and become radicalized from it. Their hatred of Israel isn't because of Judiasm. It's because Israel makes these people fear the sky above them.
Not only have I never said anything like that about any one in my entire life, but have expressed the EXACT opposite sentiment hundreds of times here. You don't need to paint ME as a subhuman bigot to have a conversation in which you disagree with me. Please.
Produce one single quote where I dehumanized anyone, save for the occasional yo mama joke and Dustro a few years ago for benching Yainer... :}
You are a human who sees Palestinians as subhuman. This is shown by the fact that you cannot picture a secular country with everyone in the region with the same rights because I'm sure you believe if Palastunians have the same voting rights as Israelis in the region in one state they would vote for an extermination plan for the Jewish citizens in this new hypothetical secular state. You don't want it because you believe Palestinians are not responsible enough humans to create a singular secular state akin to what happened to the Boer South African Aparthied regime being dismantled for a singular secular state.
