Kerry losing points with Catholics

I love how every time terror or catholics are brought up someone brings up catholics using "force" to stop abortion. Personally, I am totally against abortion, but I personally don't remember the last time one of these clinics was bombed. That used to be the case and it was a sick way to show your opinion and I hope those people get everything coming to them. But to lump all catholics in with people like that is totally wrong, just like its wrong to say all Muslims are terrorists. Sadly, in today's world its OK to pick on religion as long as its not Islam.

On another side note, i've always wondered why people for abortion are against the death penalty. I can kinda see why people against abortion could be for the death penalty (the person had a chance and messed it up they would say), although that too is hypocritical in its own right. It's just something that's always bothered me about both sides, really.

 

do attempted bombings count? the story below is from Nov. 2003. Also in March 2003 a man purposely drove his van into the doors of the Planned Parenthood clinic in downtown Houston.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/11/12/abortion.clinics.arrest.ap/
Suspected abortion clinic bomb plotter arrested
Wednesday, November 12, 2003 Posted: 10:02 PM EST (0302 GMT)

MIAMI, Florida (AP) -- A man arrested on suspicion of plotting to bomb abortion clinics came "perilously close to carrying out his plans" after casing clinics, studying bomb-making and buying material that could be used in an attack, according to the FBI and court documents.

Stephen John Jordi, 35, was arrested Tuesday after agents arranged a meeting aboard a boat, FBI spokeswoman Beverly Esselbach said. He jumped overboard and was pulled from the ocean by the Coast Guard a half-hour later.

Jordi was in the final stages of planning imminent attacks, U.S. Attorney Marcos Jimenez said. A criminal complaint said Jordi cased several South Florida clinics and discussed bombing one in Macon, Ga.

On Tuesday, Jordi and an FBI source bought gasoline cans, flares, starter fluid and propane tanks -- including a large one filled with propane gas, the affidavit said. The source also provided Jordi a .45-caliber pistol, silencer and empty magazines in exchange for $200, the affidavit says. Jordi was arrested later that day.

The affidavit said Jordi had discussed with an FBI source possibly using C-4 plastic explosives, propane tank bombs or pipe bombs and had studied bombing methods throughout the fall.

"He was perilously close to carrying out his plans," Esselbach said.

Jordi was charged with solicitation to commit a crime of violence; distribution of information relating to making and using explosives for arson; and possession of an unregistered firearm or destructive device.

Jordi admired Paul Hill, who was executed September 3 for killing an abortion doctor and his bodyguard outside a Pensacola clinic in 1994, Jimenez said. According to the affidavit, Jordi showed the FBI source a letter in which Hill thanked Jordi for his moral and financial support.

The affidavit also says Jordi, a former Army Ranger, hoped to be "on the run" like Eric Rudolph, who is charged with the Olympic park bombing and abortion clinic bombings. The affidavit said Jordi told an FBI source he expected to eventually be hunted by authorities: "As long as I keep hitting places ... they'll keep after me ... but like trying to catch a cockroach in a house ... they won't get me."

Jimenez said the arrest affidavit "makes clear that this is a dangerous person that has now been taken off the streets."

The FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force had been investigating Jordi since August.

Esselbach said Jordi's Coconut Creek house was searched late Tuesday, but she would not comment Wednesday on what was found.

Jordi's brother, Michael Jordi, said by telephone Wednesday that he told the FBI of the plot after learning about it in July. He said he and his brother have a poor relationship, and called him mentally unstable. He said the allegations didn't surprise him.

"That's why we called the FBI. Where he's at (in custody) he needs to be," said Michael Jordi, a Bridgeport, Alabama, resident. He refused to comment further.

Stephen Jordi was arrested in 2000 on an allegation of child abuse, but the case was dropped two months later.

Dwight Ward, Stephen Jordi's brother-in-law, said Wednesday he thought Jordi once mentioned to a relative that he might "do something to an abortion clinic." Ward said Jordi never specifically talked about blowing up clinics.

Jordi is "overzealous about the Lord," but not a violent person, Ward said.

Ward said that if the allegations were true, Jordi would only "try to destroy the clinic itself, if anything. He would have done it after hours and hope no one was in there.

"He was trying to discourage the act and not the people behind it."

A woman who answered the phone at Jordi's address Wednesday confirmed that it was his home, but said she did not want to speak to reporters. A message left with Jordi's public defender was not returned.

Hill was the first person put to death in the United States for anti-abortion violence, and abortion rights activists warned that his execution could lead to reprisals from extremists.

Mona Reis, director of Presidential Women's Center in West Palm Beach, said clinics have been on heightened alert since Hill's execution.

This fall also represents the five-year anniversary of the shooting death of Dr. Barnett Slepian by an anti-abortion activist in suburban Buffalo, New York.

 

I wasn't talking about bombing at all.

To make abortion illegal, to put the coercive power of the state behind its ban, is not to eliminate it, it is only to drive it under cover. And not only does a legal ban fail to eliminate the act, it fails to address the real problem, which is a moral rehabilitation of society. Many historical examples prove this, just look at alcohol prohibition and the "war on drugs". Trying to cure a moral evil with the threat of prison time, and even the death penalty (if some have their way) is the use of force that I was referring to. What so many do not see is that if abortions become illegal, what we would have in this country an horrible underground abortion operation that will rival the current drug trade.

I don't expect all people to realize forceful, violent methods is not the correct way to end abortions, but I would expect more Catholics and Christians.

 

i wasn't addressing halfbreed's Catholicism defense.
Just his assertion that these bombings no longer happen. Sorry for the confusion.

 

John Kerry should be losing the Catholic vote, since he obviously is not Catholic (you can not be pro-Choice and be Catholic. It is apostasy). He'll get the votes from Catholics who depend on govt. to plunder the pockets of others to pay their bills, but as for suburban Catholics who get their pockets plundered, I doubt it.

In case anyone cares, I'm now in the swing state of Florida and hopefully, my vote is the one that pushes Bush over the edge here and defeats the Poodle. We need global tests (the SKerry scumbags are running ads saying that the Bush people "misquoted" Kerry about the global test. For crying out loud, you spinning SOB's, he said it!) and SKerry's sorry ass in the White House like we need a hole in the head.

 

Actually he didn't say that we need global tests. He did mention something passing a global test, that was right after he mentioned that the President has the right to pre-emption, and that he wouldn't be afraid to use it, and that no other nation would be allowed to determine America's right to defend itself.

To say otherwise is either a misquote, or something from the mouth of a spinning SOB.

After all Kerry said it.

 

Passing a global test means that you are allowing other nations who are not friendly to our interests to impose the standards of such a construction. By having a global test, that means you WILL have other nations veto our right to self-defense. Another flip-flop, since he believes a global test would be neccessary for us to defend ourselves, yet he will defend us pre-emptively? Which is going to be, Senator?

 

That is how you wish Kerry defined Global Test, but that's not the way he defined it at all. He said that when he did use pre-emption the evidence would pass a global test, not that it had to, or we couldn't do it without the approval of other nations. In fact he said that he didn't need the approval of other nations.

 

Wrong. He never said that abortion is correct or moral, just that it should remain legal. TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

"I can't legislate or transfer to another American citizen my article of faith. What is an article of faith for me is not something that I can legislate on somebody who doesn't share that article of faith. I believe that choice is a woman's choice. It's between a woman, God and her doctor. That's why I support that. I will not allow somebody to come in and change Roe v. Wade."

 

good to know that you are in charge of who is a Catholic and who isn't one. How would The Church feel about you attending your friend's lesbian commitment ceremony?

 

Yes, anybody who votes for Kerry will go to hell since the only thing being Catholic is about is whether or not fetuses have the appropriate measure of legal protection, that issue supersedes all other church teachings and excuses any other degree of human misery and suffering that might result for any reason, ever.

"Do unto others as thou shalt do unto an embryo" That's the golden rule, apostates, and anybody who thinks different is a murderer.

 

twhy would tell you that using a condom is apostasy too. Any candidate that favors safe sex is not a real Catholic.

 

First of all:
The church has denied Communion to those who are pro-choice and for good reason. They are going against the dictates of the church, making them.....ding-ding-ding, apostates. I didn't say it, the Pope said it. The church is pro-life and for those who are pro-choice, there is a nice seat in the pew of the Episcopalians. It's like claiming to be a Texas fan, but rooting for Texas A & M to win in their annual battle.

Second of all, how is my support of a dear friend go against the teaching of the Church? I may not support homosexuality (love the sinner, hate the sin) but I love my friend. How dare you even bring that up.

I guess the bottom line is this for all of you lefties out there: anyone who dares impose any sort of standards on a voluntary group (a church) that isn't in line with the ever-changing winds of an ever-more-perverse society is a fuddy-duddy facist.

 

alrighty Lynne Cheney
The Church is against same sex commitment ceremonies.
Not just gay sex. Not just gay marriage.
By your standards you can not be gay and Catholic.
Should we be denied communion as well?
I thought the whole point of communion was Jesus forgiving sins? Should a priest or pope have a say over who Jesus forgives?

I apologize if bringing up your personal life offended you. Honestly I didn't think it would.

 

No, I'm not offended. Slightly miffed, maybe.... But anyway, for argument's sake, my friend isn't Catholic. Well, the Church can decide who can or can not receive Communion, which is one of the most sacred ceremonies. Baptism is intended for forgiveness of sin, not communion. This explains what Communion is to the Church and for brevity's sake, I'd get you to follow this link.

 

Priest: This is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Happy are those who are called to his supper.
All: Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed.

 

But Communion does not take away sin, only the sacrifice of our Lord takes away sin and with baptism, you are cleansed by his blood.