The “give me Harden over FVV” takes are embarrassing

That should have been obvious when Joey "Ray Lewis with a Basketball" Dorsey and Tariq Black looked like legitimate rotation players.

 

People buy the marketing too much. "CULTURE". BS. Put yourself back in that situation like you just did. 2023. At that time, who had the brighter future, Harden or FVV. The Rockets used faulty but reasonable logic and bet on the guy 5 years younger. It looked promising last year and like a joke this year. It's as simple as that. We were all happy we got FVV and how else would you market it. I would have done the same thing. If I say we picked him because he was 5 years younger that's a diss at FVV and Harden. I say picked because we did meet with Harden. Instead, I say we picked him because he will help us build culture. Same with Dillon. I like Dillon. I'm not going to say we're a 20-win dumpster fire team and he took our money when a lot of guys wouldn't. What other options out there were better than Dillon? Same with FVV and Harden because we had to use cap space.

I don't believe for one second, Stone or Ime thought we would be 41-41 last year or what we are this year. Last year certainly didn't start out that way. I believe they are as stunned as we are by the leap. If things didn't go well they didn't want the shadow of Harden and his history here hanging over that with all that pressure. FVV is anonymous like the rest of our players. Its a happy go lucky feel good story without any drama or press. Look at the press, they ignore us. They've already decided we aren't going anywhere and talk about the Lakers and Warriors. The Warriors set themselves up perfectly with us. They are already talking about both teams making the conference finals. They even want to diss OKC.

 

Solid points but I disagree that they used "faulty logic". Plus you over emphasized only on my 1st point and ignored the other two. Nobody is a fortune teller. Who predicted that Harden would be playing this well and FVV would be playing this bad? Nobody. It wasn't faulty logic. Sometimes ish happens.

Regarding point #1, they built a winning culture with FVV. They have the results to back it up, without Harden. You can poo poo the term all you want but results results results. Ask Mike Budenholzer about results or even Mike Malone. Not saying it's right, but building and sustaining a winning culture is paramount.

Regarding point #2, the Rockets rookie contracts are all coming due now. If Harden is locked in for 2 more seasons, how do you start paying for Amen, Jabari, Tari, etc? If you want to make a trade, your flexibility is limited. It was a strategic decision for long term benefit to sign FVV with a team option in 2025 vs locking in Harden thru 2027.

Regarding point #3, who's to say Harden's newfound success would have been replicated if he came to the Rockets? If he did come and play well, would the Rocket's young core be ready to take over the reigns as 1A (Jalen), 1B (Alp), and 1C (Amen)? Would Harden be happy being the 4th option?

 

To me, this is the main point why the Rockets shouldn't have signed Harden. I mentioned it earlier in this thread. The historical context was that Harden would take a full length max contract. By the time the contract is up, most of our young guys are due for being paid. And presumably Harden would have declined to a point where his max contract would become a deadweight.

Harden's performance this year has exceeded expectations. So who knows, maybe he can sustain at this level of a couple more years. But I wouldn't bet my team's future on it.

People keep arguing about whether Harden would be better than FVV on this team. The real issue was the contract. FVV was intentionally overpaid but on a very short contract. We needed these two years to watch which young guys would be worth high pays. If you tied up your flexibility on a declining player, you very likely would regret having to let some promising players go.

 

Fred better earn that money against GS…

 

They have Jimmy Butler.

We have Fred Vanfleet

 

42 milliion for 'intangibles' isn't gonna cut it in this series.

 

Pretty sure Dillon is going get ejected in one of the games. Ime too I bet. Fred will probably call out the refs BS as well.

 

Greatness recognises greatness tbh. I like how he gave a little nod to SGA whilst still acknowledging that Joker's the man right now. I genuinely don't think anybody in their right mind could even try to deny it, Jokic's absolutely ridiculous.

 

Strong and positive culture is the basis of all good organizations.

 

What other pg is coaching players while on the bench? He was paid for a very specific role here with the Rockets which was publicly revealed. To lead, guide, train, and change culture. I would imagine this was discussed in their negotiations which likely resulted in the numbers his agent negotiated for him.

 

I suppose all the coaching and leading he does in game doesn’t mean anything. Do you even watch the games? Lol besides here’s some video evidence of Fred coaching Reed. The misinformation, bias, and ignorance on this site must stop.

 

Darn, he should have said, “he ain’t even that good.” For the Culture. For the Ratings

James is getting soft

 

Of course a lot of players would say yes or agree to a direct question like that. would it look like if they said no? Jokic is a great player and a champion how can you dispute he’s not great. And when asked about being the greatest most players probably would say yes to move onto the next question and not start a controversy.

 

The logic isnt faulty, it made all the sense in the world.

When the Rockets were choosing between Harden and FVV, the implication was Harden was looking for at least a 4 year max deal. Of course he ended up getting backstabbed by Morey and signed for much less and on shorter terms with the Clippers a year later, but nobody knew that would happen right? So lets get that out of the way.

So between choosing FVV and Harden, what you need to remember is Rox had caproom back jn 2023 but wont have any caproom in 2026 cuz in 2026 the extension of Jalen and Sengun will be due and after that extensions of all the rookies will happen as well.

So getting FVV his money is with the caveat he is not guaranteed starting next year when we have extensions of Green and Sengun. That is the difference all these Harden lovers ignore. If we got Harden he would still be locked to max deal next year and then we need to start cutting salary. In fact the Rockets if they pick up FVV 40M option and resign Adams to his 12M contract they will already be in luxury tax even if they let Tate, Jeff and Jock Landale go.

So because we didnt guarantee FVV we can either tell him to get lost or sign for much less salary. This wouldnt be possible if we had Harden. The devil is in the details, ignoring all the cap ramifications and just saying "Hurr durr Harden better than FVV while making less" is just the wrong way to go about it.

Harden is indeed amazing but given his play before no way I want to pay him max for 4 yrs. This isnt even related to all the culture stuff you just dont want to pay old players the max for a long period of time. Sometimes it works out but majority of the time it doesnt.

 

No one compared the 2 overall in terms of skill and talent. This has already been discussed ad nauseum

 

Harden was never compared to Fred by OP. Really don’t get why you die hard Harden supporters keep saying this when it was never said. The OP said that Harden was never coming here and that Fred is undervalued and under appreciated by fans. Many other fans explained that Fred has several skills and knowledge that has helped this team and was a huge part of the turnaround. Why is there argument on this fact?

 

lmao dude stfu already.

 

People use lmao when they have nothing to come up with to defend themselves

I thought you said you weren’t responding?

Are you refuting the fact that he leads and guides players in the face of substantiating information?

Lie number 1: responding to my post after saying you “chose” not to respond

Lie number 2: misinformation claiming Fred doesn’t teach or guide players including Reed while referencing an unknown podcast that claims he said this

Lie number 3: believing and telling yourself that you’re presenting correct information in light of evidence to the contrary

can you admit that you’re fuc*ing wrong you dumb piece of shi+?