Jalen is our best shot creator and so it makes sense to focus a good perimeter defender on him. He takes the most shots. Of course the defense will focus on him. Sengun receives a lot of defensive attention as well. He also takes a lot of shots. We don't have enough good shooters around those two so defenses should concentrate on Jalen and Sengun. Both Jalen and Sengun would benefit from better shooting around them. I don't think Jalen is nearly as good as a defender as FVV. Not even close. Offenses try to create favorable matches and sometimes that results in Fred being targeted. He holds his own better than most point guards when that occurs. Your eye test is very different than mine here. The metrics all strongly agree with me. I don't have to provide any evidence for what you're asking about Jalen not getting the fouls he deserves. This isn't a grand jury. We both watch the games. I don't think Jalen is seeking out contact as successfully as players like Luka, Booker and SGA. That's why he is getting less calls. There's no officiating conspiracy against Jalen Green. We're not even a small market. The NBA has no incentive to ignore contact against Jalen Green.
Go to the game thread yesterday for starters. Then after that do a search for Jalen posts past 3 even 4 years.
If you dont want to provide any evidence other than "we both watch games" then tbh none of what you say matters at all. You dont even want to do the bare minimum to verify if what you are seeing on the court is correct. You dont even see any Jaters your eyesight isnt that good.
Yes Jalen historically has been good guarding smaller quicker guards like Ja Morant. But he gets absolutely abused by anyone 6'8 or taller. Players like Trey Murphy and Kuminga killed him this year.
Just cuz others go after Sengun and Jalen doesnt mean they arent good defenders lol what are you even talking about? If you take an influencer like Pokimane and put her side by side with Ishbia, Fertita and other NBA owners she will look like a pauper. But can you actually call her a pauper? No because she is a multi millionaire. In the same way why do you think just cuz attacking Jalen is the "smart play" that means Jalen is a bad defender? He plays the most minutes on this team does Udoka like bad defenders or does he like good defenders? Just logically speaking Jalen has been the only constant on this team if he was a bad defender the Rox wouldnt be a top ranked defense. Objectively speaking I already showed you his defensive highlights and if you look at his defensive winshares at 3.2 it is higher than FVV's 2.8. What is your proof Jalen is a bad defender? Just cuz he gets hunted isnt proof he is a bad defender, not when the alternatives are DB and Amen Thompson. In fact when he shares the court with FVV FVV is the one who gets hunted not Jalen meaning FVV is a worse defender than Jalen. And everyone agrees FVV is a good defender so not sure what your logical thought process is supposed to be.
He is a guard at 6'4 no **** he will be at a disadvantage guarding taller and bigger dudes esp a PF like Kuminga. Kuminga has 4 inches and prob 30 pounds on him. How does FVV do guarding Jokic? Is FVV now a bad defender cuz he gets abused by 7'1 centers? LOL the logical takes some people make here are a joke. Trey Murphy cant even stay healthy you zeroed in on the one game he popped off and suddenly Jalen is a bad defender lol.
Those guys are forwards. Naturally tough to guard bigger opponents. He can hold his own against Jaylen Brown Booker and Ant man. People that play his position.
Why do the efficiency numbers don't lie? People just have terminating thoughts thinking it doesn't require an explanation?
CF is overly hard on him there's no doubt, he has been the leading scorer all season. The question remains to be seen if he can be the #1 guy though, and that probably isn't likely. Its a huge ask and a high bar, but he is someone that can be a solid 3rd option like Klay
He does get fouled no doubt. But I do agree with you that he doesn’t use his body as much as he should. Especially on fast breaks one on one he should bump players out the way once they’re out of position. He had a big highlight where he bumped a big out the way for a layup. Need more of that.
There’s a few areas he’s improved in and they’ve significant because they show progression. His scoring in the clutch improved: 24-25: 87 total pts 23-24: 44 total pts Paint scoring improved: Less 5 ft 24-25: 61.1 FG% 23-24 58.7 FG% Drives 24-25: 858 total 10.5 per game 23-24 775 total 9.5 per game Pass on drives% 24-25: 30.2%. 23-24: 27.2% Restricted Area 24-25: 64.2 FG% 23-24: 61.7 FG% Unassisted scoring in the paint improved Less 5 Ft FGM% UAST 24-25: 73.1% 23-24: 61.8% Less 8 Ft FGM% UAST 24-25: 74.3% 23-24: 63% RA FGM% UAST 24-25: 71.9% 23-24: 62.9% Non RA FGM% UAST 24-25: 85.9% 23-24: 71.2% Scoring on pick and roll improved As Pick and roll ball handler 24-25: 42.8 freq% 8.6 pts per game 40.8 Scoring Freq% 42.8 FG% 23-24: 39.3 freq% 7.2 pts per game 39 score freq% 40 FG%
I'm as objective as possible, but I don't believe I am by definition objective. Objectivity is something you strive for. The moment you're a fan of a team or a player on that team, your objectivity is heavily diminished. Now you've opened a second subject. Let's do our best to look at them objectively: 1) Jalen Green is not a top 5 player on the Houston Rockets. 2) Jalen Green is the worst PLAYER among the 20 leading scorers on the top 20 teams. Here's the gigantic error you're making: - You've assumed the more efficient player is the better player. This is SO insanely wrong, nevermind objective. It's easy to prove this: N'Faly Dante is the most efficient offensive player on the team. He's certainly not the best offensive player just because he's the most efficient offensive player. Secondly, Alperen Sengun has the 2nd highest DWS on the team, and he is certainly not the best defensive player on the roster. Now you will think/say: well, it's obvious Dante is not the best offensive player. That's it right there, that's the point where your objectivity went out the window and you abandoned your own methodology in favor of your eye test. So then the objective thing to do is to apply the eye test to all equally and admit that you're being highly subjective in your methodology. - On the second one it's even more of a clusterf*ck. The game of basketball is mathematically exactly half offense and half defense. Half of all minutes, possessions and production is defense. So to say Jalen is the worst of those 20 players because he might be less offensively efficient can't even be accepted as a methodology. Further, there is no statistical test that accurately determines the best player. The reason for that is offensive advanced stats are decent but not great and defensive advanced stats are a disaster. If you rank players by any of these two metrics, no one will agree with the league-wide rankings. This has been shown here many times via examples like Jaylen Williams. In order for your test to be accurate, it has to WORK first. In order for these metrics to be useful, organizations and coaches add their own context to it. There is no one who's actual job it is to use these numbers that doesn't apply context to them. The people who create these formulas are aware that they are not anywhere near perfectly accurate. Mark Dignault is not going to bench the 2nd best scorer behind the MVP who's a good defender on a 60-win team because the advanced numbers say he doesn't deserve to be on the court that much. What you're doing here is equating efficiency (and it looks like mostly offensive efficiency) with who the BEST player is. This is an imaginary exercise that opens the door to you being highly subjective. You're not being objective while discussing it with non-objective people. That's not what's going on here. What's going on here is we are all applying subjective analysis to the numbers, and some are acting like they're not. Some do it less, some do it more, but everyone here is subjective to a degree. Further, not everyone who posts data knows how to read that data. Not everyone who posts data understands the scope and framework of that data (offense + defense + the effect of one player on other players via mental factors). Do you get where I'm coming from? The far more powerful data that doesn't come in numbers is: Jalen Green was trusted by Ime Udoka to be the leading scorer of a 52-win team in a make or break season for everyone. He's about as efficient offensively as Paolo Banchero and Alperen Sengun. Those two have higher defensive impact, but Jalen Green is a better defender for his position. Most important of all: those 20 players you mentioned, what's their average age? So does it make sense then to say that if Jalen is lagging behind players in their prime it's not an actual problem, but if a player in his prime is lagging behind Jalen then they're especially in a worse position? You can't escape context. We're not doing math with these numbers. We're mixing math and tactical analysis. That's why for example the numbers don't work across era, and sometimes you have to manually override it and apply it within a team only rather than league-wide. Just like you missed half the court in your analysis of Green, you're also missing half the arena in your advanced analysis (tactical analysis). Unfortunately advanced metrics are extremely raw and erratic and it will take about a decade till they're at the reliability you're insinuating. Now if you're willing to have a debate where we both acknowledge that we're both trying to be objective and partially subjective - then we can actually communicate two ways. We can actually avoid reckless conclusions like "this efficiency is higher so with my eyes closed this guy is better than that guy". That's my 2 cents and I've been saying this since before Jalen Green was ever drafted, when we had the statistical god prime James Harden on our team. Jalen Green is KILLING it for a guy in his role. Happy to have that debate with you, it would be fun.
I never said Jalen was bad defender. You are putting your Jalen green goggles on hard. When did I say he was bad? In fact I actually said multiple times that he's improved drastically this year. You just read what you want to read cuz you have to defend him so bad when all I was saying is that teams do still hunt him, small guards hunt sengun, bigger wings hunt Jalen,
Second seeded teams in the conference usually gets more All Stars or award winners, if nothing else by default. Cavs players are a good example of that.
I think that guy might be a known jater’s alt. “Basically, I don't really see any Jaters at all.” LOL. WTF
Allow me to clarify. I personally do not know anyone who hates Jalen Green. I know a lot of people who are frustrated by the inconsistency. They're not the same thing.
