[NBC News] Large Swaths of Children being hospitalized in Texas due to non vaccinations of Measles

It's not here, nor in Denmark (and a number of other respected countries/governments). I consider bodily autonomy a human right, so I don't find it ridiculous.

 

541 measles cases in Texas since January, 2 deaths

"fewer than 10" transgender athletes in college sports, per the NCAA President

Funny which one is the bigger deal in certain circles.

 

I know that, and I think it’s stupid and willful neglect to allow a measles outbreak to ravage your home leading to the death of a child…go save the rest of them before another suffers the same fate

 

How comfortable would you feel with it being legally mandated that your children get the newest rushed through RFK formulated vaccines, or else they get taken away and re-routed to a more acceptable host? How about a mandated neuro link from Elon?

What happens in the rare event that a child dies from anaphylactic shock or a fever, how would one explain a government mandated death on an individual level to the parents?

The benefits of vaccines speak for themselves, the reduction in disease and suffering is an amazing accomplishment by humanity over the last hundred years, but in my opinion bodily autonomy should always be a human right, it should always be a personal choice to inject your body with something.

 

It's not the parent's body the government would be mandating vaccinations for, it's their kid's body

 

That would depend on what the theoretical vaccine mandate is exactly, vaccines for adults could be mandated too. Like I was pointing out, something like neuralink could be mandated for all that matters, if bodily autonomy is out the window.

For childhood specific vaccines, yes, but a child/infant isn't capable of making that decision for themselves, parents get authority for decisions children aren't deemed old enough to make yet.

 

Yes chicken can't make that decision and the government would theoretically be stepping because they can't in a goal to protect them despite their parents

 

comparing some rushed RFK vaccine for who knows what to the MMR vaccine is a massive leap…same with comparing it to something as niche as neuralink

the incidence of death from anaphylactic shock from the MMR vaccine vs incidence of death or long term complications from contracting measles as an unvaccinated adolescent: risk vs benefit is a thing for a reason

I don’t see how these are convincing arguments

What personal choice did the dead child have?

 

great auto correct

I personally wouldn't be in favor of authorizing government control over bodily injections or augmentations for my children. I understand vaccines are generally very safe and do a great deal of harm reduction, but I don't see it as a general area thats on the table. For example, unlike vaccines, I didn't get my boys circumcised, I don't care if there are some general health benefits, I simply wouldn't accept a gov mandated cutting of the dicks.

Until it isn't ? Open up that can of worms at your own risk, I'd pass.


I am generally trusting of the government to play a large role in a number of things within my personal politics, some personal freedoms and things I consider human rights, are still vital to me.

 

sorry, but comparing neuralink and some random rushed RFK vaccine to the MMR vaccine doesn’t make much sense to me

Now we’re talking about circumcision?

Again, what personal choice did the dead child have?

 

The government mandates things like your child being educated for protection of children despite their parents

 

What I'm trying to get at with those comparisons is - why do you think the choice to give up bodily autonomy of you or your children to government would be strictly within the confinements of your personal comforts, amongst only the people and things you currently trust? What happens when thats no longer the case? I feel like with the current volatility of politics this shouldn't be too hard to imagine coming to fruition.

My argument isn't against vaccines, it's just them being mandated as a principle of having control over our bodies. Ultimately I view the withholding of bodily augmentations or injection to be a personal choice and human right for people and parents. We may just disagree here.

There actually isn't a federal mandate for education, its left to the states, all 50 require schooling but the enforcement mechanism vary greatly. Here in Texas for example there are basically zero enforcements with homeschooling, rendering schooling in the state ultimately not required in practice.

But yes there are laws set by the gov (state or federal) that interfere with a parents control over a child, children have their own rights and protections even if they are our kids and we make decisions for them. We can't starve them, expose them to drugs, abuse them physically or sexually, etc, or else we risk jail and losing the child. I do acknowledge that point, I still see a distinction with vaccines, I know some don't and I honestly don't blame y'all it's reasonable at face value.

Just trying to give y'all the angle on where I'm at on it, and why there are a number of respected countries (Canada, Nordics, Japan, UK, Ireland, Switzerland, Australia, New Zealand, Netherlands and on, that have even greater vaccine freedoms than the US (with it not being mandated for public schooling), despite them having nothing to do with Maga and the current covid related vaccine skepticism waves. There is a legitimate concern with bodily autonomy here.

 

the comparisons are faulty

something like the MMR vaccine can’t be compared to some random rushed RFK vaccine u made up or an elective procedure like circumcision that is mostly done for religious or cosmetic purposes

same with comparing it to having an anaphylactic rxn or fever resulting in death when the rate of anaphylaxis to a vaccine is 1 out of 1 million doses, and the incidence of death resulting from anaphylaxis is even lower than that

U still haven’t answered what personal choice the dead child had?

 

Not arguing, I understand you are giving a personal perspective. I understand, atw made some reasonable concerns about covid vaccinations mandates.

That being said, measles in particular was pretty much wiped out here. There is almost zero risk in getting vaccinated. It's not just the government protecting children despite parents, measles is very contagious. It's a greater good issue also, your child gets measles and puts others at risk

I am surprised more liberal European countries have lesser mandates that's a very valid counter argument

 

The point of the comparison isn't to make the examples to be of equal value to you

The point here is that it isn't risk free, and with a mandate you are mandating risk here. Even if in the grand picture it's far more beneficial, it's still damning the people who succumb to that rare risk BY LAW, which generally isn't something that's always tolerated legally in developed countries.

I don't know what there is to answer here, there was obviously no personal choice. There's usually no personal choice for kids who die from the flu and could have been helped from a flu shot. There's usually little to no personal choice in kids dying from just about anything, most of it can be attributed to tragic misfortune, criminal activity, or neglect. We should do our absolute best to minimize it within reason.

What reason is defined as will vary from person to person.

 

@ThatBoyNick

Education is mandated by Texas though it obviously allows homeschooling

https://www.google.com/search?q=tex...icket-us-rvc3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

 

On paper not in practice. There are zero enforcements for home schooling, there are no standards or tests that are required to be adhered to, there are no check ins, nobody to report to, time sheets, proof of material, there is nothing.

 

Now you're being ridiculous. This is a conservative state, naturally it allows homeschooling.

There are requirements which ironically includes immunization.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hom...icket-us-rvc3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

 

the point of a comparison is to make one that’s actually applicable, not comparing the MMR vaccine to neuralink, circumcision, and anaphylactic shock…

How many things in life are truly risk free? U can find a rare risk for anything, such as the 1 in 1 million scenario u mentioned. The point isn’t about zero risk, it’s about minimizing the far greater risk of widespread disease, disability, and death like we just saw with this child, and like we used to see constantly before the MMR vaccine was developed. You’re really trying to argue about damning someone to a 1 in a 1 million chance of something by law vs damning them to a much greater risk of death as the alternative.

u seem like the type to argue that a doctor shouldn’t be able to give the child of a Jehovah Witness a blood transfusion in a medical emergency if the parents object due to their beliefs even tho it’s in the best interest of the child

the flu shot is another faulty comparison…there’s a different strain of influenza every year, and the vaccine can be as low as 19% effective and typically ranges from 40-60% efficacy…the MMR vaccine is 97% effective against measles, and studies in the UK show 99% efficacy