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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Its just amazing how Americans have no idea how economics work. 68% of the US economy is build around consumer spending. When we have the ability to buy cheap stuff it allows us to spend that money elsewhere whicj creates more jobs. The idea that somehow having a trade deficit with a country means we're being used is so braindead.

    The federal reserve is now predicting lower gdp growrh and less spending cuz of his dumbass tariffs. The fed is predicting a higher unemployment rate cuz of the tariffs.



    Its just fascinating how so many Americans are utterly clueless about how tariffs work
     
  2. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Bidens infrastructure bill which majority of republicans voted against created 70k+ new construction projects which employed hundreds of thousands of new workers. Bidens IRA which every republican voted against is directly responsible for 900+ new factories opening up while employing hundreds of thousands of new employees.

    We did all that without putting a single dumbass tariffs in place
     
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  3. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    cut spending, lessen tax for the majority? why are people still parrotting this? are people simply unaware or choosing to stay ignorant on the budget resolutions that were adopted.
     
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  4. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    I'm not following your logic, and your assumption is wrong.

    Ukraine has not been the most corrupt country since the '90s. The funding for Ukraine to defend itself only started after Putin's Russia decided to invade.

    I don't know how either of those two points relate to your speculation that Ukraine will lose the war no matter what.

    As for the expense, I think the point is already crystal clear. Sure, any expense can be discussed, but the fact is that funding for Ukraine is a relatively very small piece of our budget. If debt (or U.S. bankruptcy) is something that is very important, then first, let's not increase it by $4.5 trillion due to optional changes pushed by the White House and Republicans (primarily the tax cuts for the wealthy). If that isn't a concern, then I'm sorry, but I don't think you are actually concerned about debt (or U.S. bankruptcy).
     
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  5. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Peaceniks like pointing out that Ukraine was corrupt. The issue is that after Euromaiden, there was a strong desire by Ukrainians to join the West through the EU. That process isn't a cakewalk and would've required a lot of reforms including free/open press and elections. All the Baltics and former Cold War era states that ran towards NATO had to jump through the same hoops in order to join.

    It's not perfect. Ukraine could easily become another Hungary in a different timeline, but I don't think the corruption claims are that big a showstopper.

    It's been done before with many success stories.
     
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  6. CVcrew

    CVcrew Member

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    You can’t honestly say that without our aid, in whatever form, this war would still be on going. Russia is far superior and advanced. I’m not even sure how that is debatable.
     
  7. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    The vast majority of our budget is entitlements. So yes, 100B-200B is a **** ton of money. It must be very nice to live a privleged life to believe 100B is not a lot of money.
     
  8. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    the war is still going on, Russia is walking all over Trump
     
  9. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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  10. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    I can. I don't know if it would still be going, but I cannot at all, even slightly, rule out that it would NOT still be going in some form.

    Your insistence that the war couldn't continue without our aid because "Russia is far superior and advanced" doesn't hold up when you consider history. The U.S. was far superior and more advanced than the Viet Cong, yet the U.S. ultimately withdrew, and the Viet Cong won the Vietnam War. Similarly, the Soviet Union, with a far superior and advanced military, eventually withdrew, allowing the Taliban to take over Afghanistan.

    Another clear example is the American Revolution. The British Empire was the world's most powerful military force at the time, yet the American colonies, through determination, unconventional tactics, and home-field advantage, managed to win their independence. These are just a few cases - history is filled with instances where a militarily superior force failed to achieve victory, especially when the fight is to defend one's homeland.

    Superiority in weapons and numbers does not guarantee success, particularly against determined resistance, asymmetric warfare, and logistical or strategic challenges.
     
  11. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    100-200B is a lot of money. It’s peanuts compared to the $4.5 trillion in additional debt that would be added if the Republicans succeed in making their tax cuts for the wealthy law.
     
  12. CVcrew

    CVcrew Member

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    You mean all of the tariffs you left in place from the previous administration? And help me understand how you are relating these two topics? If it’s temporary pains this will be offset from tax cuts and the new investments that he’s bringing into the country.
    To be fair, the U.S. did not exercise all of its weapons that were available in the Viet Nam war. We had superior Air Force that was not used to strike targets inside North Viet Nam. Another example of a political war we had no business being in. A war our politicians however did want.

    Lack of advanced capabilities was not why that war was lost. Russia also is withholding weapons it could very easily deploy and use that would essentially end this war within a matter of minutes. That’s not debatable.
     
  13. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    For good reason. War is complex. It's not just about might, manpower, and weaponry. For example, Russia could nuke Ukraine tomorrow, and it would be done - for both Ukraine and Russia, and maybe mankind.

    At the end of the day, history shows that the "winner" of wars is much more complicated than a simple "superior military".
     
  14. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Again. Theres a massive difference between using targeted tariffs like what Biden had done and putting universal tariffs on all imports. Quit using bullshit talking points that you know are false. The overwhelming majority of "tax cuts" will go to the top 10% while his universal tariffs will hit the bottom 40% the most as they consume alot.

    He isnt bringing in new investments into the country. Hes going after Bidens CHIPS act which brought back semiconductor manufacturing and hes trying to reverse Bidens claimate law which directly led to 900+ new factories opening up.

    Why do you MAGA folks have to lie and gas light others as if we're braindead and watch foxnews all day? Your propoganda and disinformation doesnt work on anyone with a functional brain
     
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  15. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    A123: tArRiFs R baD
    Evidence: Biden implemented many tariffs that you thought were great
    A123: Well some tariffs are very good, especially if it was from Biden. Broad tarrifs are bad
    Evidence: those were broad tariffs...
    A123: slobber slobber Biden slobber
    Evidence: Biden has the 2nd lowest avg approval in modern times, right behind disgraced Nixon
     
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  16. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Ive repeatedly said Trumps trade policy of his first term was the best trade policy we've had in 40+ from the WH. It was hands down better than Obama + Clinton combined.

    The issue this time is Trump is putting tariffs on goods that we have no way of producing here. We can't refine aluminum in the usa cuz its a highly energy intensive process. Placing tariffs on household items like toaster ovens and low value supply chain items is braindead.

    Placing tariffs on solar panels, batteries, EVs, semiconductors are smart cuz they are critical to national security. Avocados from mexico are not.

    You're just a moron and i have no idea why I waste my time with you.
     
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  17. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Yes, tarrifs can be both good and bad. This is obvious. But the left is in full meltdown mode over baseless and hollow threats.
     
  18. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    It's two generations of indoctrination of neoliberal orthodoxy by both parties. People get fed cliffs notes of econ classes that aren't required in college and Experts on tv or tiktok enable that ignorance. The world has shifted too much since covid and it's not sustainable for us.

    Both parties will continue reciprocal tariffs until something really breaks because it's really popular to Americans. A recession or slowdown isn't the break that comes to mind.

    To make it clear, I don't think Trump's moves are the solution but it is an attempt to solve a problem Democrats and liberals haven't fully acknowledged or admitted.
     
    #18518 Invisible Fan, Mar 20, 2025
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2025
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  19. Buck Turgidson

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    You understand how tariffs and recessions work together, right?
     
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  20. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    You understand Biden implemented tariffs, right?

    When my team does it = good
    When anyone else does it = bad

    Me no thinky thinky for myself. Need Politico ASAP
     

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