The “give me Harden over FVV” takes are embarrassing

The market for Harden that offseason would've been nowhere near a full 4yr max. But even if we assume that was Hardens asking price, with benefit of hindsight, that would still be a better contract compared what FVV is producing. I wasn't in favor of the Harden reunion back then, but if I had known he'd still be this good and be this impactful in helping the role players around him, I don't think it's any question I'd prefer Harden

 

Imagine having Harden on this team and adding another superstar this summer. Ime and Stone set this team back from being a immediate contender

 

Harden >>> Fred

It's not close at all.

 

Fred is horrible on offense…the only value he brings is that he doesn’t turn the ball over like crazy like the rest of the roster when he’s not out there

the Rockets can’t possibly be thinking he’s someone they should be moving forward with after this season

Fred is averaging 10, 4, and 5 on 32/32/80 splits his last 10 games and is getting paid 40 mil…his agent is elite

 

Its a fact we had one of the greatest comeback with fvv playing.
Fvv > harden. /s

 

We will never know. And It would be interesting to see what Harden could have done here and where this team would be. He may be a better offensive player and facilitator than Fred but again Fred brings so many things to this team such as leadership, mentorship, defense, and he knows what it takes to be a champion-something Harden doesn’t know anything about.

 

Yeah, he surprised a lot of people with his production this season. He looked washed in Philly with lingering injuries. I mean, if Morey knew Harden would still be this good, he probably wouldn't have to be a liar.

That said, it's the length of the contract rather than the amount that was damning. FVV could get that high because of its length. We were looking to have to pay at least some of the young players by the last two years of a presumably 4-year contract.

 

A pg’s duty isn’t just scoring. Using words like “only” is simply undervaluing other aspects of a player’s abilities and their game. That’s @Bobbythegreat terminolgy and logic there. And always not a factual or accurate representation of a player.

 

Harden is more talented I don’t think anyone disagreed with this. But in terms of making timely winning plays, making right plays in critical situations, defensive intensity and leadership no question Fred brings this and that’s why he was paid to right the ship leading a team of young inexperienced players. Udoka and management saw the value in these traits and again it’s about fit and creating an identity for a team that had no identity. Harden coming back would mean going back to a culture they tried to get away from when he left.

 

thats the typical @Reeko response lol. A lot of judgements and very little critical thinking and analysis lol

He will probably say to you “and who are you?” “You’re a nobody” lol.

 

Fred was bad tonight. Tari did some good early scoring, but other than that he wasn't all that good either. Jalen and Dillon really were the two who carried the starting lineup...Now THAT does show in the +/-

Neither was super efficient shooting but it wasn't awful. But they both rebounded well and assisted very well.

 

We will never know but assessing Harden’s legacy here and the events that transpired the past 4 plus years, logically signing Harden simply would make little sense. They would be Going back to a culture and style of play they have reportedly wanted to get away from based on the Udoka signing and Stone’s comments in the post Harden era.

 

You’re assuming that it would turn into Harden iso ball. The clippers have over performed this season, main cog in that is harden. He knows how to run an offense as he has done multiple times in his career with multiple different unique rosters.

The rockets are doing well, they seem to have grown and taken steps from their previous seasons id attribute that more to Ime then but still leadership from Fred.

I don’t think Harden is the type to demand the team how to play. He didn’t do it in BKN or PHI and with the roster and vision that the rockets have id doubt he’d do it here

 

I didn’t assume anything. I base everything from historical trends and events.

Style of play doesn’t mean just offense. He is a poor defender there isn’t much dispute on this. He does not bring an edge on that end. Clippers still run a lot of isos for him and he’s the league leader in isos this year. But besides this, there were reports on him being a big part of that “dysfunctional” culture. Culture change means rooting out and gutting the old and installing a new mindset with new personnel.

But again I agree with you that he would adapt to a Sengun centric offense but it wouldn’t make much sense to me to have a guy from a culture and style this team has clearly wanted to get away from.

 

Fred scored 3 points in a game the team scored 144. I think Fred had a lot of us fooled because when he was out you could tell the team was missing something and lacked stability down the stretch. There were multiple games where Fred was out and they couldn't even inbound the ball in crunch time, there were some games where if Fred was there they likely would have won, but we have set the bar so low that we think a mediocre PG making $40M is necessary. Fred is a backup PG that should be making $10M-$12M a year. We need to go out and find a PG that we can rely on. We have way too many assets available to trade to just be sitting on our hands depending on FVV.

 

What makes a “good” pg in your opinion?

Define mediocre.

 

My problems with Fred

He is no threat to drive or finish in paint … so he has no gravity

He has excellent hands but he’s small and bigger guards abuse him

He loves to play at a slower pace, which is totally opposite of what this teams needs because we are not a great halfcourt offense ….

He would be very good as a backup PG…and someone you bring in 4th to close out games…right now he’s really our SG because JG is handling the ball so much

 

Again, most of the conversation seems to be:

If the Rockets had JH right now instead of FVV then the Rockets would be better off.

Context matters. The starting PG position is only one of 15 positions on the team. The Rockets had a long term big picture strategy. The front office never viewed Harden as a "missing" piece. They had a long term plan and Harden simply wasn't part of that long term plan. Said another way, they weren't in "win now" mode. They were in rebuilding mode "phase 2".

NOBODY predicted the Rockets would be contenders this season. As such, the Rockets plan seems to be ahead of schedule ...without Harden.

 

Funny post, huh? Rockets win!

After Jalen turned the ball over multiple times in the 4th, FVV got the ball down court and ran an actual play. That is his value. Let the young players develop and provide stability when needed.

Harden isn't available this summer so why are you discussing if Harden is better on this team than FVV? Jokic and SGA would also make this team better. Let's throw in Luka too.

Let me help you with realistic questions:
1. Did the Rockets make a mistake by signing FVV two years ago given that they have a team option this summer? (Or should they have signed Harden to 4year max deal where they are locked in)
2. Should the Rockets release/trade FVV this summer and pickup another PG off the FA market? (who's even avail cause Harden isn't)

 

I simply stating my issues with FVV … our offense would look different with Harden because Alpi isn’t a rim running big which Harden excels with… so then it goes into a different realm of roster construction and etc etc

the hope is Amen develops the dribbling skills under pressure and gets to 36-38% from 3 - then he can split PG duties with JG.. and we can fill out our bench better