The “give me Harden over FVV” takes are embarrassing

That's a strong response. Good one! I feel burned.

You know, it's okay to simply acknowledge another point and move on. You don't always have to double down.

I've stated repeatedly that JH is the better player. The only point that I've been making is that JH wasn't the strategy for the front office and that said strategy seems to be working. Now the Rockets are back in 2nd place in the west! (celebrating) I'm not sure why that's so hard to acknowledge.

 

Harden is superior in finding players on the perimeter with the kind of passes he can make. He is superior in pick and roll offense and would maximize this team on offense no doubt. But given the circumstances with the Rockets reportedly wanting to build a new culture, Harden's history with the team, and Ime's vision in constructing a hard-nosed defensive identity for this team, they went in a different direction. It is what it is.

 

It's about identity, culture and fit. Just like any other teams (corporate, tech etc). Fred fits the culture and identity of this team.

 

I actually had it wrong, Clippers were mostly projected to finish 12th, not 13th

O/U win totals heading into the season on DraftKings and Fanduel

Rockets: 43.5
Clippers: 35.5

ESPN projected finish heading into the season

Rockets - final play-in spot at 10th
Clippers - 12th in the WC

Yahoo Sports projected standings heading into the season

Rockets - 11th
Clippers - 12th

CBSsports projected standings heading into the season

Rockets - 10th
Clippers - 13th

BR projected record heading into the season

Rockets: 44-38
Clippers: 36-46

the Rockets were not projected to finish 14th which would mean being worse than 2 of the Blazers, Spurs, and Jazz…lmao at thinking u could get away with posting that made up bullsh*t

so u can stop fcking lying and embarrassing yourself any further

 

Why do I have this strange feeling that we may see Rockets vs. Clippers in round 1 of the playoffs...

 

Hey man, y'all cant be out here just expressing logical and well thought out views and opinions! Many of the people on here made their assessments years ago - and they aint changing their minds now! lol

 

THat would be wild

Rocket River

 

Wow, dude. this isn't that serious of a topic and at no point have I ever personally attacked you. Dial it down a bit and keep it civil. This BBS has been great for years and years because it isn't like the rest of the internet.

Anyway, I concede I was off by a couple spots. The MAIN point is that the Rockets and the Clippers were projected about the same. The one with the "superior" PG had about the same outlook.

But what is exactly your point anyway? Are you arguing that the Rockets made a mistake two years ago in signing FVV and that they'd be a better team right now if they had JH?

MMmkay, ask the Nets how that worked out.

If that isn't your point, what is your point? I've acknowledged many times that JH is the better player.d

My point is the Rockets made a strategic decision, based on building a new culture. That decision seems to be working since the team is now over-performing all pre-season projections. So what is your point?

 

Projected to have an 8 game difference in record.

“About the same”

What?

 

I was chill until u resorted to lying and making stuff up

saying that the Rockets were projected to be 14th in the West, aka the 2nd worst team, is a straight up clown post…U really thought u were gonna get away with that?

and you’re still thinking u can get away with making sh*t up…O/U 43.5 wins vs O/U over 35.5 wins is not projected to be about the same

now you’re just yapping nonsense…we’re done here

 

Paying 25 million for a backup pg is nasty work

 

I think we need to make one thing clear that seems to have been glossed over.

Aside from the culture thing and the fact that Ime didn't want him, there's also the contract issue. At the time when Harden was rumored to want to sign with the Rockets and the Rockets were interested, it was assumed that Harden would ask for the full-length max. After the Rockets thing fell through because of Udoka, he went back to Philly to negotiate. Philly wouldn't give him the max. That's when the "Morey is a liar" drama happened. And apparently Harden shopped around and couldn't get the max from any team. He eventually opted in and Philly traded him to the Clippers and he signed with the Clippers for a much smaller contract.

So presumably, if Udoka didn't veto the Harden signing, Stone was willing to give Harden the full max. I was against signing of Harden mostly because of this contract. At the end of such contract, Harden would be 37 years old and would likely be a negative asset. If Harden was to sign something similar to what he did with the Clippers, he would have been cheaper than what we are paying FVV with the same length. That would have been a completely different story IMO.

 

TOPIC: Did the Rockets make a mistake by signing FVV two years ago instead of Harden?

But by your own post.
"BR projected record heading into the season

Rockets: 44-38
Clippers: 36-46"

That means there is overlap in the projections. But again, exactly where they finish in 2025 isn't the point. Who cares what their 2024-25 projections are?

It's like arguing with your wife that you only cheated on her once when you actually cheated multiple times. What difference does it make? It doesn't change the fundamentals of the issue at hand. So let's stay on topic.

But if you want to be butt hurt that I quoted the wrong number (when you actually quote the wrong # too, lol), then good on ya. Cheers.

I've asked you multiple times to actually express what point you are making and refuse. You just keep saying I'm wrong but express no actual opinion of your own. Weak sauce.

 

I feel no need to have any sort of serious conversation with u after u shamelessly resorted to making sh*t up, it tells me u have no problem talking out your ass and any effort on my part would be pointless

u can’t even keep up with all the nonsense you’re posting…you’re literally all over the place

bye

 

Exactly! Thank you! That context seems to be lost.

Arguing which PG is better in 24-25 is moot. In current reality, that was never in play.

Ime clearly stated one key reason he chose to come to the Rockets was because of cap flexibility, which would have been lost if they signed Harden. This version of the Rockets with Harden was NEVER going to happen.

“A lot of things were very attractive about this job,” and that “Cap space is a big thing.”

- Ime Udoka (April 26, 2023)

 

Here, I'll help you. Here's what you said.
"the Rockets are easily better with Harden in place of FVV, and the Clippers wouldn’t even be a play-in team with Fred"

Great. That is an opinion, not a fact. ...regardless it's an irrelevant opinion because it's not based in reality. Who cares if JH are better in 2025? I've not once ever made that claim, for or against, cause that misses the point.

As the old cliche goes, two seemingly oppositional things can be simultaneously true. It is true JH is the better player. Is also true that Rockets "might" be better in 2025 if he was on this team. But he was never going to be on this team, as constructed.

It's normal to make mistakes and/or disagree. Then your maturity started showing and you started name calling. Take your ball and leave, if you like.

 

See, that’s a discussion we can have. But I don’t feel embarrassed thinking Harden can make this a better team than FVV. Anyone who thinks it’s embarrassing can GTFO for all I care.

 

Fvv sucks. Talent trumps everything. The only reasonable defense to choose fvv over harden was worries about his age and durability.

Overpaying someone for culture, vet experience is just flat out stupid.

Harden has always been better than fvv at any given point.

As we speak getting creamed by a depleted 76ers while fvv is just there.


U are just flat out stupid if u honestly cant believe a lock in harden cant elevate this team higher than fvv bum a$$.