The “give me Harden over FVV” takes are embarrassing

I don't think Harden ever loss to a lower seed .. .at least not here

Revisionist history is always interesting
Hell After that 2002 Reffing. . .the Kings didn't look too sharp in Game 7 either

Rocket River

 

Blah blah blah. You failed to mention without Harden we probably wouldn’t be in the playoffs to begin with. The problem I have with people like you is you only remember his lowlights, and choose to ignore his many more playoff highlights. Just look at his playoff averages, and tell me it’s Harden’s fault that we fell short.

 

Good thing we didn't get Frauden. They lost to them no good Pels

 

It's hilarious to see people using the "well FVV's team has better record than Harden's team" logic today, given that nobody talked about scoreboard the offseason when the Rockets signed FVV over Harden. I wonder how many of you guys were vehemantly against the FVV signing back then given he was on a majorly underperforming Raptors team despite having Siakam and OG along with FVV at the time still.

 

Why are people talking about Harden era??

Where is the harden era? The clippers aren’t in a Harden era, Like the nuggets are with jokic or okc with shai.

The dude is 36 years old keepin his team a float basically doing his job which is to score and distribute, the same way FVV is to Houston. Is this the great FVV era too??

harden is better than FVV at everything. Would also be a better team fit looking at this roster.

Talking about his playoff failures is a dumb argument, the team dosent just have Harden. It has green, sengun, bari, Thompson, etc..they wouldn’t be background players while Harden is on the team

 

Harden is a double edged sword. Everyone should know this. We have many many examples now of him carrying a team to 50ish regular season wins and then him crapping the bed in the postseason when defenses crack down.

Harden is the system. Him being the system is the reason why a team can have mediocre talent around him and still achieve regular season success. However in the postseason you can’t just discover a brand new identity out of the blue. You are still going to need Harden to be Harden and he’s got the worst track record in NBA history of not showing up when he’s in that situation.

I’ve got so much love for what the guy did for us those years but we need to freaking move on guys.

 

Not exactly accurate
His failures are definitely documented
but
By and Large - some of the "Greats" have the same failures
BUT
someone else stepped up
I look at the Brooklyn team - they were a big toe away from championship IMO
Because KD Stepped up - (Harden had the Hammy and tried to play through it and probably made it worse)
Harden IMO always needed a CLOSER
Someone that was that boost of Nitrous in the end
a Steve Kerr / Kyrie Irving / KD to throw it to at the end of games

Look at his BEST teams
Can we honestly say . . .person for person . . . man for man . . Injury for Injury.. Harden's team was the better team
Remove him from those teams - and remove the other team's star . . .that the rockets were the better team? Better Roster??
Even in the Spurs game . . .. there is a large part on Harden . . but also DanAndToni was out-coached
(some say the Concussed game)

He has definitely laid some stinkers
but He wasn't always the sole reason
(I'm look at your Embiid!)

Rocket River

 

Bottom line is, without Harden, we would have either been a lottery team year after year (see post Harden era, oh the dark years), or got blown out in the playoffs even if we miraculously did get there.

I guess in that sense it IS Harden’s fault, because he gave himself the opportunity to “choke” in the clutch moments.

 

The whole premises of this thread is that folks wanting harden over fvv are being foolish.

Try not to move goal post.
Bottom line is we stand a better chance of doing well with harden than fvv rather it's regular season or playoffs. Harden run laps around fvv and harden haters keep doubling down on other talking points. Like harden choking in playoffs or him not playing defense.

Harden with all his negatives is still a far superior player than fvv. Yet the haters keep doubling down, it's wild.

 

Well, I’m with you. Maybe I didn’t phrase my post right. lol

 

its like Nico and Dumont blaming Luka for Dallas not winning a chip last year

 

if Harden sucks in the playoffs, y’all don’t even wanna know what FVV does when the postseason comes around

his numbers and efficiency make Harden look like prime Bron

 

Straight up, Harden is better than FVV. But that was never the measuring stick.

The Rockets were never supposed to be contenders in years 2-5. They said this was "Phase 2", suggesting that "Phase 3" is title contention.

So if Phase 2 is about building a competitive team, the goal isn't about acquiring a player (eg Harden) to be competitive now. It was ALWAYS about developing the young talent so the team can become increasingly competitive and remain competitive over the long haul.

Harden is like eating a candy bar. Mmmm, mmmm. Tastes great now, then that sugar crash hits.
FVV was always one part of a square meal. There is a broader plan to develop the team for long term health. Not sexy, but diet and exercise is how you get strong ...not candy bars.

 

If you are comparing Harden to FVV straight up, you are doing it wrong. But let's look a little deeper at a few other stats.

Looking at their 24-25 Advanced Stats for Total Team Offensive Rating on Basketball Reference
FVV: +4.0
JH: +2.9

Both players played this season are averaging exactly 35 mpg.

Turn overs
FVV: 1.5
JH: 4.5

FG% and eFG% are also identical (both in 2p and 3p), yet JH takes an extra 3 shots per game plus JH shoots way more FTs cause he's a foul merchant, as we know.

Nobody is debating that Harden is better. The question is who is better for the long term development of the team? Harden wanted a long term guaranteed contract. FVV has an annual team option.

Oh, and the Rockets are doing just fine without Harden.

 

I agree. Fred is really a backup guy.

 

yup…unfortunately we couldn’t get a major upgrade in Harden, but hopefully Stone adequately addresses the PG spot this summer

 

Yep, the Rockets need another PG, for sure. Rockets were hoping that Reed would be the backup this season and grow into a starting caliber PG in the next year or two. So far, that's a bust.

Once they signed Udoka, Harden was never the plan. Harden isn't perceived as system player and you want your PG to run the system.

Let's see what happens with the Suns this summer. I wish they had traded for KD at the deadline. If the Rockets could have kept the core intact and only gaven up picks and scraps, this team would be in 2nd place right now and probably have a legit title run this season. But now, I don't think I want KD in the summer and I'm not really sold on Booker as your A1 guy. So we'll see. I'm secretly hoping Giannis breaks free.

 

Bogi just barely landed on the clippers and look what he is saying about the "locker room cancer" in James harden

 

Harden is a better offensive player. FVV is a better defensive player.

I don't think either have separated themselves regarding value this season for their respective teams. If FVV and Harden switched places, I think both teams would be worse.