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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. basso

    basso Member
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    Deb, do you believe Ukraine currently has the manpower to eject Russia from the Donbas and Crimea?

    If not, do you support the deployment of EU NATO troops in support of this goal?

    Would you include American troops, on the ground, in Ukraine?
     
  2. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/20...apparent-bid-to-remove-him-from-power-en-news

    Trump team meets with Zelensky’s political rivals in apparent bid to remove him from power

    Two of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s political rivals have confirmed that they have been in contact with members of US President Donald Trump’s entourage following a Politico report published on Thursday in which an alleged bid to remove Zelensky from office was revealed.

    According to Politico, “secret discussions” have been held about holding snap presidential elections in Ukraine that could potentially unseat Zelensky before a final peace deal is signed.

    Petro Poroshenko, Zelensky’s predecessor as president of Ukraine, said in a post on Facebook that his team was working “publicly and transparently” with Kyiv’s US partners “to maintain bipartisan support for Ukraine”, and stressed that he remained “categorically against holding elections during the war”, believing that the Ukrainian presidential election could only take place “after a ceasefire and the signing of a peace agreement with security guarantees for Ukraine”.

    According to Politico, the Trump team reached out to Poroshenko and Ukraine’s former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko to discuss whether Ukraine could hold snap presidential elections, which it would be glad to see Zelensky lose. Trump claimed last month that Zelensky’s domestic approval rating stood at just 4%, when it is in fact far higher than Trump’s.

    A poll held by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology in February indicated that 63% of Ukrainian respondents approved of the president’s policies, and his poll numbers are likely to improve following an outpouring of support on social media after last week’s unprecedented clash with Trump at the White House.

    Tymoshenko and Poroshenko, on the other hand, are currently much less popular in Ukraine than Zelensky, with a late February survey by British pollster Survation showing that just 10% of Ukrainian voters said they would support Poroshenko in a presidential election, while only 6% said they would vote for Tymoshenko.

    The former commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Valeriy Zaluzhnyi, who is currently serving as the Ukrainian ambassador to London, has been Zelensky’s main political rival for some time now, with 21% of Ukrainians surveyed saying they supported him.

    Tymoshenko also rapidly released a Facebook statement on Thursday to clarify the situation by insisting that her party, Batkivshchyna, was “in talks with all our allies” to help ensure a just peace as soon as possible, adding that holding fresh elections was “out of the question” until peace had been achieved.

    Nevertheless, one unnamed Republican foreign policy expert told Politico that both Tymoshenko and Poroshenko were talking to Trump’s allies to position themselves “as people who would be easier to work with” than Zelensky.
     
    deb4rockets, astros123 and Ottomaton like this.
  3. ROCKSS

    ROCKSS Member
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    trump always wants someone who is weak or wants power so he can bully them and have back door deals...............he cant stand up to real men
     
    No Worries likes this.
  4. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    This is the biggest braindead low iq talking point that the MAGA cultists push.

    Zelensky has never asked for western troops to take back any territory. Zelensky has said repeatedly he is willing to concede the land that Russia is occupying in exchange for long term security. He is not asking for the land back that Russia currently occupies.

    Quit gas lighting people with Russian propaganda @deb4rockets
     
  5. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    It's honestly no surprise to me that the MAGA supporters who believe the words and propaganda from a compulsive liar like Trump would believe Putin's lies and propaganda too. I mean Russia embraced one of the biggest liars and propaganda spreaders from Fox News, Tucker Carlson. Birds of a feather stick together.
     
  6. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Sounds ok without context.

    It was immoral for the US, to encourage the Ukrainians to turn down the deal to give up Crimea a Russian naval base since 1790 and allow semi-autonomy to the 4 ethnic Russian speaking oblasts. The US promise motivating turning down the deal was the promise of unlimited forever weapons which have been highly profitable to the US arms industry. US/NATO was never going too risk WW III, which has been shown to be the only way Ukraine could win against Russia. Ideologues talking only about "third world vassal state of Russia and Putin" , or making the usual references to Hiter/Stalin, Neville Chamberlain. or insisting on Ukraine's absolute right never seem to take this into account.
     
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  7. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Fighting over 3rd world countries aside, Israel runs a legit government. That said, for such a very successful government, shouldn't they be able to afford their own weapons? Im not sure why we are subsidizing them. <insert far left and far right conspiracy theories>
     
  8. glynch

    glynch Member

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    They subsidize our military establishment! lol. Our military industrial complex makes profits benefits relatively few while we subsidize their nice welfare states with benefits only dreamed of for Americans, national healthcare for all, long vacations, free college etc.

    BTW US "defense" stocks are down and Euro "defense stocks are up. Seems sort of just since the Euros are paying the price for the war with expensive energy since we blew up the Nordstream pipeline and there are millions of Ukrainian refugees to support.

    BTW I agree that the Trump rare earth caper is a shake down. The profits to rebuild Ukraine should be earned in Ukraine, not the US.
     
  9. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    is the ukrainian government not legit?
     
  10. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    We did not blow up the Nordstrom pipeline. There is zero evidence behind that conspiracy. The guy who created that conspiracy has had it debunked by numerous individuals including the Swedish government who posted evidence.

    Thank you for proving my point. The only core belief that lefties have is America is bad and it's responsible for the world's problems and you blindly believe anything.

    Theres no difference between lefties and MAGA. We need to deport both of them to another planet and start over.
     
  11. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    seriously? No, its not. Its why they can't get into NATO in the first place. Ukraine is too divided to have a unity government.
     
  12. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    I
    Looks at United States. Looks at most of Europe. Knows NATO countries are extremely divided politically
     
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  13. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    We are not politically divided. Its the 20% of the fringe that screech the loudest. When I walk my neighborhood and talk to my neighbors, we are not fighting over each other about politics. People who think America is deeply divided need to get out of their bubble occasionally.
     
  14. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    And yet we haven't coalesced around much of anything.
     
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  15. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    I use to make fun of all the liberals who claimed Trump was a Russian agent in his first term but at this point what else is the explanation??

    Why is USA capitulating? This is crazy
     
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  16. glynch

    glynch Member

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    We all just read or listen to sources.. Show me what makes you think this.
     
  17. dmoneybangbang

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    What does that have to do with Russian spreading disinformation?
     
  18. glynch

    glynch Member

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    China is already essentially equal to the US in GDP and is growing faster. Their population is bigger. We have much more arable land, though, amajor advantage, though the two countries are very close to the same geographically size. We waste much more resources and tech talent on military spending. They produce a lot more manufacturing. I'm not sure how you can be sure. I would agree that internal problems in US will have a lot to say on this.
     
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  19. PeppermintCandy

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    In the 1970s and '80s, the U.S. covertly tried to destabilize countries that showed support for the Soviet Union.

    Now, 40 odd years later, it's covertly (and overtly) trying to destabilize a country that is being invaded by Russia.

    Crazy.
     
  20. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Fascinating. The generation that grew up fighting those people now run the government. We are tired of old mens petty wars. Russia is not a threat to us. China has outpaced Russia and the US. Its not the worst thing in life if China surpasses us, but people will have to start working harder for the money.
     

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