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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
    Supporting Member

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    I can't imagine any man with an ounce of courage or integrity letting some old self-serving snake in a suit rip apart our government, turn against our allies who believe in democracy, screw the farmers and working class people of the country with tariffs, and lay out a red carpet for the billionaires, Musk, and Putin to walk. Oh, and use our taxpayer dollars to fly Musk and family on Air Force One.

    Biggest tax breaks for the 1%. Billions in government contracts for Musk! Positions of power to the biggest Trump donors! Fire the Blacks and Women at the top of every military agency! Insert Trump loyalists.

    MAGA

    Making Discrimination Legal Again.
    Making America Poorer Again.
    Making America Untrustworthy Abroad.
    Making Healthcare Conspiracies Facts Again.
    Making Science Unnecessary Again.
    Making Global Warming a Conspiracy Again.
    Making Revenge Priority Again.
    Making Toxic Waste Unregulated Again!
    Making Shell Companies Shady Again!
    Making Bribes for Deals Legal Again.
    Making Whites Leaders Priority Again.

    So much winning for the MAGA voters. :eek:
     
  2. dmoneybangbang

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    Sure you do…. you just can’t admit that your rhetoric is the war mongering Russian side.
     
  3. HTM

    HTM Member

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    Even if European countries ramp up defense spending now it will take many years [if not longer] to feel the effects.

    That's the part they never tell you in these articles.

    It's not like walking into a room and flicking a light switch.
     
  4. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Not the preferred option, but certainly isn't end of the world. (and here we go with the ultra superior Russia military who can't take Ukraine who has no money or real military but can absolutely steam roll the entire continent of Europe comments)
     
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  5. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    They had 3 years to ramp up. If they haven't ramped up, we certainly shouldn't expect them to in the years to come.
     
  6. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    Nobody is saying they will steamroll Europe. They won't stop at Ukraine. How meant other countries need to lose countless lives in the process?
     
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  7. dmoneybangbang

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    The article certainly doesn't indicate it will be flicking a light switch on.

    In reality the top military arms exporting countries in 2024 are:

    1 United States
    2 Russia
    3 France
    4 China
    5 Germany
    6 Italy
    7 United Kingdom
    8 Spain
    9 South Korea
    10 Israel

    If the US is going to not be an ally, then the EU will need to make some major changes, especially the coordination of some of Europe's individually powerful militaries.
     
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  8. dmoneybangbang

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    Again.... Russia is getting closer to China, Iran, and NK.... MAGA seems to prefer dealing with the autocrats and adversaries.
     
  9. HTM

    HTM Member

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    Didn't say it did.

    This article, like most I have seen about increased Euro defense spending, also doesn't inform the reader the problematic timeframe concerning these events.

    A more honest report would explain that.
     
  10. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    It’s easy to just just blame the other side of being over dramatic when the harder to explain reality of a Russian capitulation being hard to describe but still very negative for the world once you parse the details.

    One detail for example is using his new geographical port locations along all of Ukraine’s south port cities being able to extort African countries with their food supply through grain exports. There are just countless examples of how poorly it can go for the world if Putin is gifted with a successful outcome.

    Spaceghost made a comment about it not being the end of the world… well yeah an asteroid hit the Yucatán peninsula and it wasn’t the end of the world technically but it still wiped out the fcking dinosaurs. “End of the world” is only relative to the world you live in.”
     
  11. HTM

    HTM Member

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    How many countless innocent lives are going to be lost around the world today?

    It's not/shouldn't be the American peoples responsibility to make sure nothing bad happens to anyone anywhere in the world.
     
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  12. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    You should check out his hot take on the violence in Africa. (he is waiting for politico to tell him what to think)
     
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  13. dmoneybangbang

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    And it hasn’t been America’s sole responsibility…. And American hegemony isn’t one of altruism but self interest. Even sending malaria or HIV aid overseas is a form of soft power.

    It can both be true that Iraq/Afghanistan were colossal geopolitical and financial mistakes and standing up to the China/Russia/NK/Iran growing partnership is worthwhile.
     
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  14. dmoneybangbang

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    You alluded to it….

    Perhaps the writers give some credit to the readers to know that factories don’t turn on with a flick of a light switch?
     
  15. HTM

    HTM Member

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    What forms of soft power are South Korea, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Ireland, Japan, Iceland, Norway etc etc exerting around the world? Do the citizens of those countries still not maintain standards of living more or less equal to citizens of the United States? Leftists will tell you life is actually better in those countries! They exert essentially no soft power internationally. So what?

    Is Matilda Johnsons life in Vancouver, Washington going to change an iota if the United States curtails its international aid levels? Is Gary Owens life in Cleveland, Ohio going change an iota if tomorrow there is a pro-Russian administration in Kiev?

    You people simply spout buzzwords because you cannot formulate a cogent argument as to why the American people should care/pay for/fight these foreign wars or geopolitical situations.

    "WeRe GoiNg To LosE SoFt PowEr" - So what?

    "ItS In OUr StRaTeGiC IntEresT tO PaY FoR UkraIneS WaR" - Why?

    The American people are going to be perfectly fine in any event.
     
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  16. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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  17. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Rocket River
     
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  18. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    That has actually nothing to do with what I said, but just because something isn't your responsibility doesn't mean you should ignore it. A random kid drowning in a pool that isn't yours isn't your responsibility, but would you jump in or just stand there?
     
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  19. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    [​IMG]

    Context - JD Cartman up here told the Brits they knew nothing about war fighting bc they haven't been in one since the Falklands (they were in Afghanistan defending America)

    @Os Trigonum
     
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  20. dmoneybangbang

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    Nothing stopping the US from both exerting soft power/hard power and investing in our country in the way those countries do.... All these tax cuts just increases the deficits, like the increased spending.

    This isn't an either/or situation.

    No but defense workers in places like Texas and Pennsylvania (among other states) would have certainly felt the effects of Russia's invasion because American hegemony does create jobs at home.

    And certainly US aid for malaria and HIV creates some jobs at home through NGOs, which is certainly miniscule.

    However, Trump's isolationism may end up cutting important services for Matilda Johnsons and Gary Owens.

    It's no coincidence it is what made America great and one of the most powerful countries in history. You just seem to have this absolutist view / zero sum view.

    It's amusing how you conservatives, even though you can't admit it, have been failed by your capitalist leanings and gave away the country.
     

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