1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Dillon Brooks is the Rockets' Franchise Player

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Salvy, Aug 10, 2023.

  1. meh

    meh Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    16,161
    Likes Received:
    3,361
    I feel it's so blatantly obvious yet somehow, after two people pointed out your error, you are still not notice it the second time you go back and look again. I mean, even if missed the 54 GP vs. 3 GP, are you also going to tell me that you actually believe the Rockets scored 6082 points with Brooks and 354 points without him?
     
  2. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    21,004
    Likes Received:
    22,410
    Like many things you don't understand, things just get corrected and life moves on. I don't really worry about it after the correction. Just happy to know. What I don't anticipate is someone with an inflamed ego sitting in the corner waiting to attack someone.

    This is very difficult to understand I'm sure for a person like you who can't let go of things till they're the last person holding onto it.
     
    Stephen_A likes this.
  3. meh

    meh Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    16,161
    Likes Received:
    3,361
    I did correct you the first time. As did another poster. Both very nicely. And then you just acted like we didn't say anything and just repeated your previously wrong numbers like if you just repeat something, you are more correct the second time.

    But whaever. Since things in life are suppose to just get corrected and life moves on, I'm assuming you now like Dillon Brooks and with correct numbers in hand, you now realize that the player with the worst net-rating in the starting lineup is Jalen Green by a country mile (-11 net rating on/off), perhaps we should insert Amen into the SG spot?
     
  4. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    38,076
    Likes Received:
    29,492
    I've posted the data that showed how much better the original starting lineup with Jabari was than the starting lineup with Amen defensively. What's not clear is the context. Whether it's fit or it's just fatigue finally sagging the defensive intensity we had in the first half of the season. Maybe both.

    I agree that the goal should be finding ways to integrate Amen better on both ends. While I prefer Smith over Brooks, I think Udoka would choose Brooks, and it's not really a big deal. They'll both play a lot of minutes. What I worry is that Ime would choose short term success over long term building. While I think Jabari is only slightly better than Dillon, my preference for him is also due to age and potential. I'd rather we find ways to integrate Jabari better especially on offense the same reason for integrating Amen.
     
    Terror-Trips likes this.
  5. heypartner

    heypartner Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    63,510
    Likes Received:
    59,001
    I’m a huge advocate that playoff experience is a significant contributor to long-term building. So, it just naturally follows that HCA and 2nd. Round, contributes a lot to “long-term building” vs low seeds and early exits due to being over-matched…at least in my experience.

    Might be splitting hairs here on difference between any 1st-round exit, but, imo, so is any discussion about minutes allocation in remaining regular season games.

    just sayin’, I’ll never question a coach’s decisions in a playoff push who has a legitimate chance to get HCA, vs marginal theories on long-term development of Jabari. Get Jabari (and all the kids) a competitive 1st Round is all that really matter to me.

    Phase 2, baby!
     
  6. meh

    meh Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    16,161
    Likes Received:
    3,361
    FWIW since I'm already reading a bunch of on/off numbers due to previous discussion, I'll post the numbers with Amen fitting with the other starters.

    When Amen/FVV/Sengun are all on the floor, broken down by who's off the floor among the other 3 starters

    No Jabari lineups are +6 (330 minutes)
    No Brooks lineups are +11 (160 minutes)
    No Jalen lineups are +33 (167 minutes)

    I know the Rockets aren't going to do this because Jalen is Stone's baby and will never be pulled, but yeah, I want to see Amen/Brooks/Jabari/Sengun/FVV in major minutes to see how they work together.
     
    Terror-Trips and Easy like this.
  7. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    21,004
    Likes Received:
    22,410
    It's definitely possible I ignored a post by you but I genuinely didn't see anyone else correcting me. As soon as you asked I shared my source.

    I think your parents disciplined you too much and it's made you a little obsessed with this thing.

    Case in point: I was relaying those numbers to people who believe in them. You're admitting here you've seen my post about Green's net rating and what I think of it. So you hold these two pieces of information and you're actively manufacturing an image for some reason even though you know there's conflicts in your idea.

    You've been in this situation before. Why are you digging yourself in a hole now that we're going to bury you in by the end of this season?

    Take your swipes, if this is your big deal then you're quite a small man.
     
  8. Terror-Trips

    Terror-Trips Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2025
    Messages:
    936
    Likes Received:
    849
    I'd just play the hottest hands the most minutes. Love Amen but if he's cold then limit his minutes, team win is more important.
     
    Easy and roslolian like this.
  9. roslolian

    roslolian Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    29,887
    Likes Received:
    20,032
    Exactly. Being able to adjust to what is happening on the court is key to success.
     
    Terror-Trips likes this.
  10. Terror-Trips

    Terror-Trips Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2025
    Messages:
    936
    Likes Received:
    849
    Brooks is best defending 5's or the stronger 4's imo. Brooks started the season on fire defensively, leading NBA in DRTG until end of 2024. He has definitely struggled defensively since then.
     
    roslolian likes this.
  11. RB713

    RB713 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2024
    Messages:
    3,106
    Likes Received:
    4,180
    Do people still think this was an overpay?

    feel like we have the best deal with him.
     
    roslolian likes this.
  12. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    21,004
    Likes Received:
    22,410
    Didn't his and our DRTG drop specifically since Amen moved to SF and he was pushed to PF? Can't be Amen because that's an upgrade at SF in terms of shot blocking, rebounding, switchability and defense.
     
    Terror-Trips likes this.
  13. Terror-Trips

    Terror-Trips Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2025
    Messages:
    936
    Likes Received:
    849
    That is likely an effect. But Rockets DRTG has been dropping since start of 2025 even before Jabari + Fred were injured. Likely combination of multiple factors including fatigue, injuries, short rotation + opposing teams adjustment. And players must have PTSD after losing so many big leads at end of games so consistently, that 6 game losing streak was especially grueling.
     
    Mathloom likes this.
  14. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    21,004
    Likes Received:
    22,410
    It's SO cheap now. The cap has obviously increased as it does annually but what's rare is his contract declines in salary each year. Year 1 he was 16.64% of the cap. Next 2 seasons he will be 13.66% and 11.75% of the cap. His final season is just above NTMLE money by my estimation (guessing NTMLE around $15m-ish?). Even the biggest Brooks hater in the world can't dispute that's an AWESOME asset for a contender.

    This summer is the absolute perfect time to trade him. He has 2 years remaining at like $21.1m and $19.9m. A 38% shooter who can finish on all defense teams >> 0% chance you don't get a pick for this absolutely perfect asset. He's a hell of a player who happens to be on the only team in the entire NBA where he'd not be your best or second best wing defender. Wish he would be happy coming off the bench in the future but I don't think he'd be ok with that. He would be better off on a heliocentric roster with a 30ppg scorer like OKC or Nuggets or something.

    So essentially, let's say:

    Our least promising prospect will be worth a mid/late FRP.
    Brooks is worth one good FRP.
    We have 2 future Rockets picks that are unlikely to yield anything good, we should hold onto other people's picks when we're contending.

    That's 4 FRP's we can trade without affecting anything for our future.
     
    #1174 Mathloom, Feb 26, 2025
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2025
    RB713 and Terror-Trips like this.
  15. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    55,439
    Likes Received:
    65,147
  16. YaoMac09

    YaoMac09 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2008
    Messages:
    5,452
    Likes Received:
    3,784
    Can’t believe he became a better 3-point shooter than Steph Curry. So inspirational.
     
    Easy likes this.
  17. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    55,439
    Likes Received:
    65,147
  18. OremLK

    OremLK Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    20,070
    Likes Received:
    17,677
    The funny thing is I think Dillon was signed mostly for his defense, but I don't think he's been anywhere close to the best defensive player on the Rockets. That's clearly Amen right now, but even if you leave him out of the conversation, I think it's very arguable who has been the second-most important between FVV, Dillon, and Jabari, with Tari as an honorable mention (because he's on minutes restriction and can't play on B2Bs).

    However, I think Dillon has actually been one of our most important players on offense. This is not something I saw coming and I'm prepared to eat all the crow, but he's actually been a really good 3P shooter since joining the Rockets. I thought he would be garbage. As bad as our spacing is, I think it would be completely irredeemable without Brooks. He's turned himself into a great 3nD guy. Major props.
     
  19. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    38,076
    Likes Received:
    29,492
    When Brooks dies, they need to do an autopsy to find out how he could become better at shooting after joining the Rockets when everybody else got worse. The result could lead to a scientific breakthrough.
     
  20. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    98,858
    Likes Received:
    48,780
    A simple truth would be the signing coincided with his historic bronze medal performance in the World Cup.....

    When he turned Dylan Mergady and Dylan Kobe.

    Plus he took tons of bad shots in Memphis ......that is why their fans were meh on him.
     

Share This Page