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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Zero chance after a deal is forged. Zelenski is gone, rightfully so. People will hate him for being in the war and they will hate him for ending it.
     
  2. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Will you actually see?

    I highly doubt it - you are the same guy who didn't know that Russia first invaded Ukraine in 2014, that russia invaded Ukraine in 2022, and, just now, that Germany's chancellor-elect is explicitly on the side of using European military force to counter Russia (he is, that's what he campaigned on)

    I doubt you will see, or even want to see sh-t.
     
  3. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    The United States voted with Russia, North Korea, Belarus and 14 other Moscow-friendly countries Monday on a resolution condemning Russian aggression in Ukraine and calling for its occupied territory to be returned that passed overwhelmingly in the U.N. General Assembly on Monday.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/02/24/united-nations-ukraine-russia-trump/


    ****ing disgusting. @Os Trigonum maybe you can catch on as a guest lecturer in North Korea.

    @basso what up. where is 2000's era Axis of Evil basso? I've got a nasty surprise for that guy.
     
  4. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I am not the holder of all answers when it comes to foreign policy.

    However I can say that Russia has now attacked a neighbor (Ukraine) multiple times since Putin as become the dictator of Russia and that Putin has flat out said what his goals are for Russia and that includes expansion outside of the Russian borders.

    With that in mind - it would be foolish for anyone to not take into consideration the actions of Russia under Putin and the aims of Russia as articulated by Putin.

    We can discuss the logistical and economic limits that Russia has - Putin has largely destroyed their economy, but they are still capable of making life difficult for people outside of Russia.
     
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  5. Nook

    Nook Member

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    There was a way to do this - and handle this, and Trump just couldn't handle it in a diplomatic way.

    I don't have an issue with Trump or any administration in power wanting an agreement with Ukraine for part of their mineral rights in exchange for weapons and some degree of assurances of support.

    It doesn't have to be nasty or negative or even viewed as extortion.

    Had the matter been handled properly - the USA could have contractually been granted benefits and rights to some of the mineral rights that would benefit the US economy AND Ukraine during the time of war and post war.

    Instead, Trump demanded an amount and in a way that it was extortion.

    I tried to give Trump some credit when the discussion of mineral rights was brough up - and even posted that Trump and the USA and Ukraine and Zelensky could all be "winners" if Trump handled it properly -- and he didn't.

    Also - all Trump has done is galvanize support for Zelensky in Ukraine.
     
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  6. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    That's the problem with this type of coercive negotiations, it's very short-sighted.
     
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  7. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Pretty good.
     
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  8. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Let's wait and see what happens.

    If Ukraine signs over mineral rights for munitions and intelligence - yes I think Zelensky survives for awhile.

    Also - at some point Putin is going to die.
     
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  9. Nook

    Nook Member

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    It can work in business where there are many other players - I personally do not like it, but it can work--- I don't think the approach taken by Trump will work on a global scale. Trump isn't negotiating against the concrete union but another nation with friendly relations.
     
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  10. basso

    basso Member
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    right here my man, I’m right here.

     
    #17450 basso, Feb 24, 2025
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2025
  11. Kemahkeith

    Kemahkeith Member
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    Putin is a thug and he WAS THE ONE TO START THIS.

    With that being said. The team most of wants to win simply cannot. Even if Trump continued to militarily support Ukraine how many more years and how many more dead Ukrainian soldiers and civilians are worth an outcome that cannot be achieved.

    Sadly I think the only choice Ukraine has is to give some property to Mother Russia and get back to rebuilding.

    My heart is with Ukraine but I see no other way to have them push the Russians out unless they get bodies and more military options from those outside their country and that is not going to happen.

    It's like the California Angels playing the Dodgers.
     
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  12. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    even the Chinese said nah I am good. I will sit this one out. When China has the higher moral high ground you know it is bad

     
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  13. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Are you implying the war will continue if Ukraine gives US mineral rights?
     
  14. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    To achieve? They are defending their homeland period. It is price to pay for freedom. If America was invaded would you lay down you life for your America. I would
     
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  15. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    I doubt they would honor those mineral rights in the future. They would have a case in international law. Contracts signed unless duress can be voided
     
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  16. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I'm embarrassed that our country has sunk to this level. It's shocking. All those Americans who helped put trump in the White House should be ashamed. The United States of America has aligned itself with the Dictator of Russia, Vladimir Putin, a man attempting to remake the Soviet Union.
     
  17. Kemahkeith

    Kemahkeith Member
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    Absolutely
    And I was in the Air Force for 6 years.
    I'm not telling anyone what to do.
    I'm just looking for anyone to come up with a way for Ukraine to force the Russizns out.

    I'm open to all solutions.
    I am adamantly in support of Ukraine but this is a big hill to climb especially if the Donald pulls the military supplies.

    I just want someone to show me how Ukraine wins this
     
  18. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    The USA is trying to get a deal done to end the war, and end the tremendous pain, suffering, and financial losses that war brings. Insulting Russia while they are at the negotiating table is a dumb move. Try it next time you are negotiating the purchase of a house. Insult the seller. Let me know if you get a better deal as a result. It's common sense.

    GOOD DAY
     
  19. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Yet another joke post from you, Trader_ J. Glad to see that you haven't changed your stripes. I expect nothing less from you.
     
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  20. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    Another way to think of this we are also draining Russian military capabilities the longer the war goes on. Putin wasn’t stopped in Chechnya nor Georgia and got away with taking power and land from them. He then Invaded Ukraine. What would stop him from taking other lands from the former Soviet territories. The really sad part is Trump is siding with Russia and point to Ukraine as the dictator. It is disgraceful. What message does it send to the rest of the world.
     

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