What will it take to make you seriously consider an EV?

Reporting back 10 months later on FSD.

First off, we own a 2018 Model 3 (HW3) and are leasing a 2021 Model Y with HW4.

February last year, I thought Tesla had ~5% probability of ever offering robotaxi service. Right now, my opinion is they have a near-certain chance. What changed my mind?

A free 30-day trial for FSD 13.2.2 was offered for all HW4 cars in late December. Let's just say it "blew the roof off" my expectations. I won't bother going into a lot of detail, but the promised "baby steps" of a limited robotaxi service in Austin starting in June are very realistic and likely to happen. So the trial on the Model Y expired, but I now have v12.6.3 on the HW3 Model 3 and while it isn't as good as FSD 13 on HW4 cars, it is good enough that (suddenly) I am now using FSD on ~95% of my drives when not in a big hurry. It's that good. The only interventions so far have been map issues, which will not be difficult for them to fix.

Waymo operates ~1,000 cars in 3 cities (PHX, LA, SFO). The service is geofenced but it apparently operates very well within its parameters. For competitive reasons, I imagine they will launch in Austin just before Tesla does.

At first, Tesla's robotaxi service in Austin will be inferior to Waymo's in every conceivable way, particularly geofence radius/size. Over the course of time, IMO, there is a 100% chance Tesla will beat them in both wait times and geofence limitations. Eventually, because of economics and the sheer number of vehicles Tesla will put to service, Waymo could end up like Boeing's space launch business is to SpaceX.

If you've experienced FSD 13 (or even just 12.6.3 in an older HW3 car), you know what I'm talking about. The pace of improvement of FSD over the last 3 months has been unreal. 12.5.4 was cool, but it wasn't until they introduced end-to-end highway on 12.6 that I started using FSD full-time. I didn't think hands-free would be a big deal but it is a knockout game-changer.

If they don't botch the launch in Austin by trying to do too much too soon, they should be fine. Once Austin is flushed out, they can refine and repeat the process across the country.

Just my 2 cents. Does anyone else here own a HW4 vehicle with FSD 13?

 

FSD 13 works pretty good, however I suspect most people will not pay for supervised driving. I think people are too used to being actively engaged while driving than to literally sit there, do nothing and make sure it drives ok. I want the ability to not focus on the road.

Also, I think they should split it up - Highway driving and local driving or pay as you go. Or just include it on all vehicles and raise the price of the vehicle by $3000.

Ultimately its about the fringe cases. For example, in my neighborhood, the outbound gate is under construction. All vehicles must use the inbound gate, which is divided into two lanes by cones. FSD handled it perfectly. Most people exiting would naturally stay on the right side, but as the call box is on the right side, the car understood that was not the proper temporary lane to use and instead used the temporary left lane.

End to end self driving is difficult to accomplish. It boggles my mind how this all works.

 

For all of the Tesla CyberTruck haters on the internet how is nickname for that thing not overwhelming the Tesla Cuck? Freaking unreal.

 

It has multiple nicknames.

Wank Tank
Cuck Truck
Deplorean
Incel Camino

 

yeah all of those are terrible. Cuck is a perfectly legit contraction.

 

CyberDump.

 

https://www.theverge.com/news/61723...ev-chargers-calling-them-not-mission-critical

The agency in charge of managing buildings owned by the federal government has begun the process of taking hundreds of EV charging stations out of service.

 

A lobotomy

 

Every time I see one of these vehicles, I just ask myself.......WHY?

 

That's so dumb.

Fire sale or mothball EVs that the government already own and shutdown charging system that's already built is the opposite of being financially responsible. It's already paid for!

 

BYD and its rivals are crushing Tesla in China — and they're going global

The rise of Chinese Tesla rival BYD, which just hit a sales record©Anusak Laowilas/NurPhoto via Getty Images

• 
  
  
  • The Chinese automaker BYD just reported its best quarter yet.
  • Even though it doesn't have access to the US market, BYD's affordable EVs are popular in China.
  • Here's how a little-known Chinese brand proved it could go toe-to-toe with an industry giant.

BYD may not be a household name in America, but it recently made itself known in a big way.

For a brief moment in December 2023, the Chinese automaker unseated Tesla as the world's top seller of electric cars. A little over a year later, on January 1, BYD reported its best quarter yet.

Even though you won't see a BYD car in America (yet), the company has built an affordable brand that's popular in China and elsewhere.

Earlier this year, it announced a Cybertruck competitor, the BYD Shark, along with a hybrid powertrain that allows its sedans to travel up to 1,250 miles without stopping.

• Affordable Chinese electric vehicles are flooding into global markets — but not the US.
• Tesla rivals BYD and Xpeng are bringing their ultra-smart EVs to a host of new countries.
• High tariffs have locked them out of the US, meaning American drivers may be cut off from cheap EVs.

Elon Musk's automaker has come under increasing pressure in the world's largest car market from local EV giant BYD and its rivals, who are now competitive with the Model Y manufacturer on both price and technology.

In January, BYD sold nearly double the number of EVs as Tesla, with the US carmaker's sales slumping by 11% from the previous year.

BYD increased the heat last week with its announcement that "God's Eye" self-driving tech would be offered in nearly all its vehicles, including the $9,500 Seagull. Tesla is still waiting for regulatory approval for its rival FSD system in China.

The most concerning thing about BYD's sales for Tesla — and other Western automakers — is where they're coming from.

BYD sold 66,000 vehicles outside China in January, a record figure that suggests the company's efforts to become a global powerhouse are bearing fruit.

The EV maker, which once received backing from Warren Buffett, beat Toyota to become Singapore's top-selling car brand last month, and overtook Tesla's sales in the UK for the first time.

With BYD's affordable electric and hybrid offerings gaining traction overseas, other Chinese EV players are beginning to follow their lead — a move that analysts and industry execs fear could export the so-called "hypercompetition" of China's home market globally.

European offensive

The debut of Chinese EV startup Xpeng in the UK was no ordinary car launch.

Tech executives and delegates from the Chinese embassy swanned through a grand hall within sight of Tower Bridge that was once a historic fish market, munching canapes and mingling around Xpeng's X2 flying car on display alongside its electric sedans and SUVs.

It's a sign of the tech company ethos that Xpeng's executives were keen to highlight as they announced the company's first UK launch: the G6 SUV, priced about £6,000 ($7,500) less than Tesla's Model Y.

The UK is Xpeng's newest market. It has also launched in France, Germany, and Italy in recent months. President Brian Gu said the company plans to expand its presence to more than 60 countries and regions in 2025.

"Our ambition is to be the No. 1 Chinese premium electric vehicle brand overseas," said Gu, adding that he defined "premium" EVs as costing more than $41,000.

For brands like Xpeng, which still records big losses and lags well behind BYD in China's highly competitive EV market, international expansion may be a necessity rather than a luxury.

"The China market is ultra-competitive, so it's going to be really difficult for them to carve out huge market share gains in the short-term because of the price war," Tu Le, managing director of Sino Auto Insights, told Business Insider.

While the UK has not imposed tariffs on Chinese electric vehicles, making it a tempting target for expansion, the European Union followed the US last year in imposing import taxes of up to 35% on EVs made in China.

That has not stopped brands like Nio and Leapmotor, which has a partnership with Jeep-owner Stellantis, from joining BYD and Xpeng in moving into the continent.

Their expansion has put local automakers on notice. Volvo Cars CEO Jim Rowan told BI that he doesn't believe EU tariffs will stop Chinese EV companies from becoming major players in Europe.

The boss of the Swedish carmaker said the influx of Chinese vehicles into Europe, alongside brutal competition in China, will force local automakers to up their game.

"As the non-Chinese brands lose market share in China, they're going to have to find market share somewhere else. That means they're going to become more competitive in their home markets and global markets around the world," Rowan said.

US risks being left behind

One market that China's EV champions are unlikely to target anytime soon is the US, thanks to 100% tariffs on imported Chinese vehicles introduced by the Biden administration.

These import levies mean the US has had to watch as other regions like Europe get access to affordable electric models like the $32,000 BYD Dolphin, and local brands like Renault launch their own mass-market EVs to compete.

The absence of this trend has helped keep US electric vehicle prices high, with customers paying around $8,000 more on average for an EV compared to Europe. This raises fears that US consumers could be cut off from accessing affordable electric models.

"On the current trajectory, the US is going to get cut off. There are 95 countries outside China where you can buy BYD cars, and we can't," said Tu Le.

Legacy US automakers have been slow to shift to electric vehicles, with companies like Ford and General Motors rolling back ambitious EV strategies over the past year.

President Donald Trump has also vowed to remove emissions targets and scrap federal support for electric vehicles, a move that will likely slow the transition to electric vehicles.

Tu Le warned that a lackluster EV industry in the US risked making the American auto industry less globally competitive, hurting the ability of the likes of Ford and General Motors to compete with their Chinese rivals overseas.

"I'm hopeful we can change the culture and bring products to market that are competitive globally, not just in the United States. As things are, it feels like the Detroit two are effectively on their way to becoming single-market companies," he said.

 

It's beyond dumb.
How are you saving money by creating waste?

 

Tesla sales in Europe are down 45% since January (76% in Germany) and are expected to keep going south. Ouch.

Pension funds divesting.

At least weekly protests at Tesla sites throughout the country and across the world.

Burning and shooting up of Tesla property.

Public shaming of Tesla owners.

71% of Canadians want Tesla sales banned in the country. Related: Tesla claimed they sold 8,653 vehicles from four Canadian dealerships in 72 hours. This created $43.1 million in rebates, which temporarily broke the Canadian EV rebate system. Look for investigations to happen.

A huge part of Tesla's profit comes from selling carbon credits. As the car sales tank, so do the carbon credits.

Folks are starting to question whether long-term service support will be there.

This is a company on a downward spiral because Musk not only became political, but inserted himself into both national and global politics, making Tesla a poisoned brand. It will be a B-school case study for decades.

This tells you everything you need to know:

 

Fanbois like Cxbuy and SG couldn't imagine a scenario were Tesla wasn't the cool brand for decades.

I've never seen a brand get destroyed image wise this quickly.

 

This just brings out the bad vibes I have with software updates and smaller EV companies in general. Fisker and Nikola are now ridiculously overpriced ewaste. Polestar, Rivian and Lucid have dropped 90-98% from their ATH. Vinfast who?

Depreciation is tied with 10 yr battery life, but I can't imagine good software engineers in 2030 wanting to manage a 10 yr old code base with an expected 15 yr lifespan and backward support of a chip that powers a Ninendo Switch (in the good cases).

We really gotta rethink this, but if you're an Elon fan, I guess having any form of regulation rules suggestions unrestrained public/private groveling to support older cars is Absolutely Evil.

 

I'm not sure what you mean with this statement

 

according to musk all the negativity directed towards tesla from the public is being funded by soros and the linkedin founder.

 

That's awesome, and so New Orleans