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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. IBTL

    IBTL Member

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    No, you're not evil. Just a complete ****ing moron who routinely gets owned in this sub forum. You are brave to keep coming back, I'll give you that. I hope you get what you want out of a Trump president you idiot.
     
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  2. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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  3. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    "Just being realistic" is a helluva way to sugarcoat Hesgeth's latest unforced gaffes.

    Hegseth softens stance on Ukraine’s potential NATO membership
    The clarification appeared designed to address the backlash, in Washington and in Europe, ignited by his remarks as President Trump pursues negotiations to end the Russia-Ukraine war.


    An Anti-DEI appointment who thnks and acts like he's more self important than the weight and responsibilities of his position.

    Sounds Totally MAGA to me.
     
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  4. astros123

    astros123 Member

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  5. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    #17125 hooroo, Feb 14, 2025
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2025
  6. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Poor Ukraine. All those lost soldiers, probably never NATO which they were instructed to make non-negotiable, all that lost territory and millions of immigrants that will never return from Western Europe etc. As predicted the countries on which the US fights proxy war almost universally do poorly.The Ukrainians should have taken the deal they could have had at Mink II before the war or the reported already signed negotiated settlement about about 2-3 months into the war. Sadly Ukraine was fooled by Boris Johnson and Biden into abandoning that agreement.

    Poor Europe and especially Germany which are suffering economically as the US withdraws after blowing up the Nordstrom II pipeline and they are faced with the unpopular task of lowering their good standard of living while trying to replace their exhausted military stocks, which the US might start insisting that they pay for.

    Like with the Iraq War II, WMD, and Afghanistan not being a stunning success in promoting democracy or whatever (till it wasn't ).the mainstream media never informs most Americans regarding our recent wars.
     
  7. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Didn't read but you're a fascist loser dipsh-t.

    Hope you don't get caught up in the next MAGAt plague & your Tesla doesn't explode
     
  8. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    The bold part is speculation built on assumptions and unproven allegations.

    Ukrainians view Russia as untrustworthy and seek security assurances. In 1994, Ukraine agreed to give up its nuclear weapons under the Budapest Memorandum, in exchange for security assurances from Russia, the U.S., and the U.K. Yet, despite this agreement, Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. History teaches Ukrainians not to trust Russia. The distrust of Russia and the lack of security guarantees offer a much more straightforward explanation (Occam's Razor) for why the Minsk 2 proposal never came close to being agreed upon. In fact, there was never an agreement to abandon.
     
  9. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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  10. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    MUNICH — U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth made a “rookie mistake” when he said a return to Ukraine’s pre-war borders was “unrealistic,” Senate Armed Services Chair Roger Wicker said Friday.

    Hegseth on Thursday pulled back some of the comments he made about Ukraine a day earlier, where he said that NATO membership for Kyiv was off the table and that the country could not return to its internationally recognized borders.

    The pull back:
    Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth on Thursday pulled back some of the peace deal concessions he demanded of Ukraine a day earlier, including no NATO membership for the embattled country or a return to its pre-war borders.

    “Everything is on the tablewhen it comes to negotiations to end the Ukraine war, Hegseth said during a press conference wrapping up two days of NATO meetings in Brussels.​

    "I don’t know who wrote the speech — it is the kind of thing Tucker Carlson could have written, and Carlson is a fool," Wicker said, referring to the pro-Putin broadcaster.

    Everybody knows … and people in the administration know you don't say before your first meeting what you will agree to and what you won't agree to,” Wicker said, adding that he was “puzzled” and “disturbed” by Hegseth’s comments.
     
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  11. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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  12. glynch

    glynch Member

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    You have some common logic going there. However, facts are facts and this is not merely an abstraction. Merkel for sure and I believe Holland admit that Minsk II was just a ruse while they built up the Ukrainian military. It is just a fact that Boris Johnson and Biden told Zelensky not to go forward with the peace agreement that he had agreed to as they would back Ukraine for ever.

    Interesting comparison point's 1994 and 2014 to make your argument. 1994 is when Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons based largely on US/NATO promises to always defend them. At the time Noted political scientist John Meersheimer who would agree with everything I said above is a liberal Democrat who backed Bernie Sanders was against Ukraine giving up its nukes fearing future tensions.

    Now 2014 is after a largely US encouraged coup deposed the democratically elected pro Russian and pro Russian speaking Ukrainians who are estimated at 35 to 42% of the pre 2014 population per Prof Google. Immediately after he was deposed thet dropped Russian as an official language and the Eastern Russian speaking part of Ukraine, no doubt encouraged to a degree by Russia started to revolt. Asan aside Crimea has been a Russian naval base since something like 1780 whether under Russia, the Soviet Union and for the relatively around the total of about 60 years that Ukraine has been a free country not under Russia, the Soviet Union, Poland, Lithuania and I believe Finland. or possiblly Sweden.
     
  13. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    They can still investigate for posterity and shake that tree for falling fruit. Blanket pardons aren't immune to perjury and he knows that.

    A now public official bringing this up on X with no desire to push this into courts reeks of the hidden agendas he's claiming of uncovering to his followers.
     
  14. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Typical post by Sam. So Sad.
     
  15. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Hmm weird that a wildly under qualified SecDef who's a Christian nationalist/white supremacist with a history of domestic violence, sexual assault, alcoholism and mismanagement would make a "rookie mistake"

    Someone should've told the Senate Armed Services chair during confirmation hearings
     
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  16. Nook

    Nook Member

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    He is a DEI hire. He was hired because he is rough and handsome enough to be on television and took a no holds barred approach. If he were some fat bald guy he would have no chance. If he were a black woman he would have no chance.

    Objectively he had very weak qualifications and he has a history of not being able to keep himself or personal life in order… but he is expected to keep the military in order.

    It is a joke - Trump liked the optics of him and knew he would be in debt to Trump.

    So he got the job. This isn’t close to a “best qualified” or even “pretty qualified” situation. If those complaining about DEI (and I am not always a fan myself) really are motivated by the most qualified getting the job- they would be outraged by this hire.

    At the end of the day I hope he doesn’t do a lot of harm or surprises me - but he is already off to a bad start.

    Maybe he and Trump’s former Surgeon General can bond over drinks at the hotel bar.
     
  17. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    The claim that "Boris Johnson and Biden told Zelensky not to go forward with the peace agreement" remains an allegation, and I haven’t seen any factual verification to confirm it.

    The Budapest Memorandum did not involve NATO. The three primary parties that provided security assurances were Russia, the US, and the UK.

    Yanukovych, though democratically elected, was ousted primarily after his decision to reject a trade agreement with the EU in favor of closer ties with Russia. This decision led to widespread protests across Ukraine. While the US supported the protesters and advocated for reforms, there is no evidence of direct US involvement in orchestrating a coup. Russia portrays it as a coup, but many others consider it a popular uprising. This remains speculative and unproven.

    Following Yanukovych’s removal, Ukraine’s parliament attempted to pass a controversial law to repeal the 2012 legislation granting Russian official status in certain regions. However, this law was vetoed by the acting president, Turchynov, and never went into effect.

    The revolts in eastern Ukraine’s Russian-speaking regions were supported by Russia. Similar to the allegations of a US-led coup, there is no definitive evidence proving that Russia orchestrated the revolts entirely, though their involvement is clear to some extent.

    While Crimea has historical ties to Russia, it was transferred to Ukraine in 1954 during Soviet times and remained part of Ukraine after the collapse of the USSR. Russia had also provided security assurances to Ukraine while Crimea was under Ukrainian sovereignty.
     
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  18. edwardc

    edwardc Member

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    That's what Trump is doing
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    Freezing Ukraine out of its own peace negotiations, not to mention Europe, is not serious.
     
    #17139 Ottomaton, Feb 17, 2025
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2025
  20. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    I think it’s serious but not in a good way. We aren’t in a hot world war but we do have a similar Axis vs Allies alignment and this signals pretty loudly that the US is flipping to the Axis powers and now am Allie of Russia, North Korea, and sort of China. Hungary is also sort of there but trying to play it both ways with Europe with their economic benefits.

    If US troops were to land in Ukraine at this point I would guess those guns will be pointed West not East, and that’s a pretty serious turn of events and why Macron called an emergency meeting of the Allies to try and maneuver ahead of Trump, Putin, Kim Jung, and Xi….

    congratulations MAGA America. Again…. The Alliance of Trump, Putin, Kim Jung, and Xi.
     
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