Money: How much does anyone really need?

Ya know....you'd think that... but... no, not really.

 

I know I would. I am not rich, at least in my view I am not, but I am comfortable. I don't spend too much compared to what I make, so if I can get two million tax free today, I could retire with what already have.

 

Theres a FIRE group that has (part time) retired off of a million in 2010 money.

They moved to places with cheap housing and let passive interest take care of the rest along with being frugal with their retired spending.

Compound interest has been mighty generous to the investing class. It's been tilted to the largest gen of Americans with every prez since Carter propping it up with fingers on the scales.

Anyhow, anyone who invested 2k a month into passive vangaurd spy starting at twenty could be a millionaire at 40.

 

One million in 2010 is close to 1.5 million today, but I still don't think that's enough, at least for me. I think 2.5 is needed for me to feel comfortable when i retire, for FIRE you would need more IMO.

 

I think the whole concept of early retirement is part of what is wrong with society. Retirement implies that you've accumulated enough wealth that you don't want to contribute to society anymore and want to live off the labor of other people. Don't get me wrong, I think people should retire at some point, but I also think people should continue to contribute to society if they still can. Sitting in front of a TV and surfing the web all day rots the brain and soul.

I also think part of the reason why people are so unhappy is the uncertainty of employment and their value in the modern work place. In old days, people would stay at companies until they could collect a pension. They felt valued if their job was just tightening bolts on a car. These days, people can get laid off from a company even when the company has record profits. Society is breaking down before everyone's eyes. People are less happy than they've ever been and people have stopped having kids with lots of people feeling hopeless even when they have an abundance of things and money.

 

I've been working for forty years. I don't want to work any more. It's not that I "don't want to contribute to society any more" or "live off the labor of other people". I've given my time and work to others for decades... and there's sooooo much that I want to do with my life, but haven't been able to, because i've had to work for so long. I've put myself in a financial position to pursue my interests once I'm retired, but sadly, I'll probably be in my 60s when I retire and not as young as I'd like to be. I'm trying to stay in shape so that I can enjoy my retirement.
...but I get what you're saying. I do a LOT of volunteer work and I intend to be very active after retirement.

Sadly, those days are gone, killed by industrialization (robotics and automation) and globalization (outsourcing jobs to cheap labor). I wouldn't say society is breaking down, but it's changed. We have to find happiness outside of the career. I recommend building a big family and having lots of kids. There's always ways to find money if you're hard-working, smart, and have self-discipline. I've encouraged my kids to have as many babies as they can (once they're in the right window of life for it).

 

I just don't think modern society especially in America is good for the soul. Always chasing more will never lead to happiness or contentment. As with anything, there is a balance. I personally think we are just down the wrong path. My kids are gen Z, and we have discussions about this all the time. Even though they are happy and productive, they tell me their generation really feel like the odds are stacked against them. I can honestly say that I don't think they have as many opportunities as I had. I think that they are the first generation of Americans that feel that way.

Their dreams of making millions being an influencer doesn't help either.

 

guess I'll chime in (gently). While I think that some folks may retire and consciously "don't want to contribute to society anymore," I'm not so sure how widespread that is. And if you've done your retirement savings correctly, or even with social security, you're not exactly living off the labor of other people. (and yes, I know how SS is funded etc.)

It's an interesting question that has to do with the meaning of life, philosophically that is. A lot of people find themselves in soul-crushing jobs that they really don't care about, so retirement for them is a way of starting to live, not stopping.

but an interesting exchange in an interesting thread.

 

Wrong path from what though?

Society better figure it out quickly before AI and UBI uproots everything we've known about careers and the individual meaning and identity we invest into them.

I mostly agree and the underlying reason is why I don't begrudge billionaires of their money to the point of banning obscene wealth.

Some of the best billionaires believe in improving society even if it means being the best at making the cheapest coffee lid.

Compound interest and passive investing tips these scales and that's where the generational estate taxes should kick in.

People are mostly familiar with the Pareto distibution rule where 20% does 80% of all the work. If the distributions from gains are tightly controlled like Communism or an EU state, the incentives for making and doing more than the cap are largely diminished.

Part of it is indeed greed, but that dismissal doesn't assume the status and power FU money has. For instance, people who had terrible childhoods can use it as motivation to bury dumptrucks of money onto their enemies into submission. In the opposite system, they remain passive sufferers at best and disruptive victims at worst.

Something to think about since looking great is the bedrock of our monkey hierarchy.

 

Chasing more doesn't lead to happiness, which is why I encourage my kids to, when the time is right, have as many kids as possible. Our lives are enriched by good, loving people, not by things. BUT, chasing wealth is good for the current and future security of yourself and the people you care about. Not for the purpose of seeking power and affluence, but for seeking security and comfort.

I hear similar things from my 24-year-old daughter and I just don't agree about the odds being stacked against them. In my opinion, young adults have MANY more opportunities than existed when I was their age.

Consider the costs of buying a house. 30-year mortgage rates right now are almost exactly what they were when I was 28 and bought my first house. Are prices higher? Yes. But so are salaries. Start with an apartment, work hard, and save your money. When the time is right, maybe move to a townhouse, work hard, and save your money. Pay all your bills on time and establish good credit. Stay out of trouble. Don't do drugs. Live frugally. Get married to the right person and stay married. When you have enough for a house down payment, get a house. It's do-able. But the young adults of today don't want to sacrifice their conveniences, they don't want to start small and work for years, they don't want to wait. They want the big nice house and high paying job right now, and they complain about how unattainable it is while they build poor work experience, have poor work ethic, spend frivolously, vape & drink & smoke pot, and pour $12 coffee down their throat. Forgive me if I don't have a lot of sympathy for such people. Victim mindset.

 

We all turn into people like in wall-e

 

Star trek has posed the same question for almost 50 years

I just need a holadeck and I would never leave.