miller 3rd season 8.9 pts 7.4 rpg magloire 3rd year 10.3 8.8 dampier 3rd year 8.8 7.6 yep....it makes yao look only pretty good when you compare them with the career year stats of 3 other big men.
While I am not supportive of the original article....this does open several elements that define greatness...or shud i say on path to greatness discussion. Playing stats-wise Yao may never reach the greatest TAG, but overall he will be closer to bveing the greatest without DOING half what the others have had to achieve. Lets talk some playing stats first before we get somewhere else. Is Jordan, the highest ever scorer ------ and not being the leader in that category prevent him from being the GREATEST...till date. Stats should never be compared across generations - heck not even across positions in the same generation. I guarantee all of you, if the aforementioned 'greats' played with todays rules - zones, double/triple teaming and overall improved athleti(ci)sm - there actual scores/stats would be lower. Just see where a 25 ppg season average lands you today on scoring list verusu even 8 years ago. Second, as a poster indicated above...you should measure the stats as a % of team contribution versus absolute contribution...and more specifically does improved performance versus own's stats - does that lead to increased team win %. In fact that measure for me is the most important to see whether a player (actually in sport) has an impact on team results. Third, team winning % and championship should is a greatness indicator. None of the guys in the list won anything in their first 6 years...and heck dont bring Kobe in that list becaue he won it on someone else's cottail. Fourth, think of any of the greats in the list who were more team oriented than Yao - pass first mentality. RObinson might come close, but remember he never won a ring without Duncan!! Non-stats based...impact on playing arena revolves around who do opposing coaches change their defence and offense around. Brad Miller / Magloire / Dampier - I am sure they are tripple teamed , if not hacked everytime they touch a ball!!! But actually Jordan was greatest - he was clsoe to that even before he won a ring! and the same will be true for Yao barring a major injury or if doesn't make anotehr 33% improvemement in his stats over the next couple of years. That GREATNESS is a) about changing the game in the minds of people - big men who have finesse on and off the court...... its about bringing another half a billion spectators to the sport - NO SINGLE OTHER PLAYER in the history has ever come close to doing that...and dont say becasue he was the first CHinese to come the league becasue he was actually the fourth. How much that is worth to the NBA.......invaluable...one pair of freaking preseason game was worth 25 Million for the league without counting the exciting proposition for the guys on the lanes!!!! Just see the number of special nites that are held when Yao is on road - next only to Lakers last year. Its about giving American born Chinese an opportunity to lift their head above neckline and say to their non_chinese bretheren, hey we are not ashamed to be in your world. Its about getting more asses into the Toyota center seats! Its about Tracy McGrady screaming that the only team he will sign a long term extention is Rockets becasue they have Yao. Greatness is the imapct between the ears!! not on someone's ring. That way Horace grant is greater than say Hakeem!!! Finally, stats are like bikini - they show a lot, cover a vital few...and can get men crazy if they miss the big picture!!
Timm, That was GOOOOOOD. Right on the spot. It's a shame that even after all that Yao has gone through, this writer is still trying to use stats to cut him down. Even if Yao only gets 20/10/3/3 per game, it's still performance in a era of zone defense and triple teams. I like the fact that T-Mac wanted to play with Yao. It's the only reason the Rockets landed him. That is star drawing power if ever. I'm not worried at all about his "performance" in Shanghai. It's like another All Star weekend for him except he was the superstar and he had to attend every event. He even said after the game he was nervious like his first NBA game. Well he didn't lay a goose egg but was high scorer for his team. I would say it's not bad. Let's see that writer carry the expectations of a whole nation on his back and let's see him perform.
I agree with MCABLE about the part where he compares Yao with Dampier and Magloire. I don't think the comparison is that far off with Brad Miller; I think Miller is overlooked by many NBA followers, and he's not flashy, so he doesn't get the attention he deserves. We need Brad Miller on Team USA badly. Anyway... I liked the rest of the article, and I see where he's coming from. Writers have to come up with something, and I don't think he's that far off, as some of you suggest. I don't think Yao will ever put up stats like Olajuwon or Shaq, but he will impact the game in different ways. Of course if you asked me which player I'd rather have I'd pick Olajuwon in a split second, but Yao will probably have a career that is slightly more successful(statistically) than Ewing. Either way, he's got McGrady now, and hopefully they can combine to be one of the best 1-2 punches in history, which is ultimately much more important than if Yao scores as many points as Shaq.
I think the article makes a very good point. Yao is hyped up as the next big thing, who will bring nothing less than multiple championships to Houston. Some of us feel that he will be the most dominant player in the league. A lot of us feel that comparing him to Patrick Ewing or even David Robinson is an insult, which is understandable because we want to believe that the sky, and not some other great center, is the limit for Yao. Personally, I think he still has some way to go even to get to Ewing's level. Regardless, his third season will be an important one. He may not have the luxury of "adjusting to the NBA" anymore after this season. How well he plays this season may be indicative of the type of player he will be for years to come. If he continues to struggle on the boards and blocking shots this season, he may not ever become truly dominant in those categories, and therefore not a truly dominant center (Hakeem, Shaq, DRob). I'm hoping Yao has a very strong third season, 20/10 and 2.5+ blocks.
Yes, but you're talking about eight years ago? You know you're talking about the mid 90's, when Jordan was still tearing up the league (29ppg)? Shaq was averaging 27ppg as recent as 2003. Great players are great players for a reason. Not because the rules allow them to be. I agree with some of your points above regarding rule changes. But you also have to take into account the players themselves; what they knew, how they learned and how prepared they were in playing the team game. All that started to degraded over the last 15 years (high school "super stars" that were NOT ready to play the game). This has an affect on point production of a team as well as that individual player. Also, increased athleticism is also relative in passing skills, shooting skills and actual execution of the skills they have learned. So, increased athleticism not only "helps" defense but SHOULD help offense. What you are seeing is just the degradation of over-all offensive knowledge. And all you are left with is iso-oriented super stars. That seems like "better defense." It's not. I mean, heck. Where are all the Detroit Pistons teams of the 88-90? We haven't seen that type of defense in years. There's not that many great defensive teams. There are a few good ones. Pointing out "better defense" is just an excuse for the over-all lack of offensive knowledge our stars have exhibited over the last 15 years. It's slowly gaining momentum with guys like KG and Duncan. Shaq is an aberration. Yao should follow in their footsteps. Yao doesn't need excuses. He's a unique player. He has advantages that no other player has. So, show it off! One of the things that Shaq, Hakeem and Robinson never had to deal with was trying to catch up PHYSICALLY to the NBA game that they knew about. Not to the level of Yao. Yao was completely broadsided by the incredible physical speed and strength the NBA showed him. He's a unique player that needed to catch up physically with the rest of the league. This is his FIRST year that he's actually had a full training camp. So, it only gets better from here. Yao is doing fine. His path is just different than the other greats. And 23 ppg or higher is possible.
Yao has to realize that everyone is going to give 100% percent against him everytime. He can't overcome them because of his talent alone. Unfortunately he has never learned the defensive aspects of the game or rebounding and is a finesse player. He really needs to work very hard with the coaching staff and the players to improve on his weaknesses and learn how to use his physical strength in the game. His inability to work with the Rockets over the offseason has impeded his progress. I'm not saying he needs to become a power player and I don't think he will ever become like Hakeem either but if he doesn't get better he won't achieve greatness.
Analyze it however you want, but the author's central point is dead on: Yao's on-court production does not warrant the acclaim he has received thus far in his young career. You can twist the stats any way you like, but the bottom line is that Yao needs to step it up this year.
I agree.. even though im a big fan Yao is one of the most overhyped, overrated players in the league. I hate to admit this but the attention he receives is not comparative to what hes done so far in the league. I do think he will reach greatness and be one of the top players in the league but he's not there yet. J
He is overhyped because he is from China and lots of pepole think that he can not play in NBA, and so on.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true that Yao hasn't played his 3rd season yet? Yet this guy is already comparing Yao's 2nd year stats with 3rd year stats of the greats. Now, I am not saying that I expect Yao's numbers to jump all the way to 27PPG, but it would be absolutely unrealistic to expect them not to improve at all. Having said that, what's this guy's point? If it is that Yao needs to step up, I agree. If it is that Yao's 2nd year stats don't compare to other players' 3rd year/later year stats, he's a moron.
Correct me if I am wrong, but even compared with 2nd year stats, well, there is no comparison too. 2nd Year stats: Shaq: 29.3pts 13.2rebs 2.85 BPG (Was he human?) David Robinson: 25.6pts, 13rebs and 3.90BPG Hakeem Olajuwon: 23.5pts, 11.5rebs and 3.4BPG. And yes, I think the author's main point is: to prove he is not overhyped and overrated, Yao has to step up big time.
Then why didn't he used Miller, Magloire and Dampier's 2nd year stats. I'm not trying to make excuse for Yao and as I've said, he needs to step up. But comparing best year stats with 2nd year stats is plain stupid. Also, with Shaq, Hakeem and DRob, there was NEVER contention in their respective 2nd years who the top dog is. With Yao there was, so at least on a PPG front that stat line is skewed.
Just another Yao hater, nothing really new. You wont' convince these guys and the SOFs to say anything good about Yao.
MFW2310, let me rephrase vanyy2000's post... "The author's main point is saying that in order for Yao NOT to BE over-hyped or overrated, Yao has to step up big time (THIS YEAR)." Yao was a special case. He was not as athletic as Hakeem or Shaq in their first years. Yao had to come from behind. So the year by year stats don't lineup the same way... But the articles author is just making an observation. If Yao's best year is 21/12, then we can all agree that he's not going to be ranked at the same level as Hakeem or Shaq. But what he will be inline with will be someone like Bill Walton. That's nothing to scoff at. It's just being realistic. I mean, a *new* player from China that is just as good as Walton is quite an achievement! One thing I'm quite happy about is that real Chinese basketball fans *know* the game. They don't want people making excuses for Yao or blowing smoke up their butts. They want the truth. And if Yao achieves 20/10 this year. Well, you must take it for face value. Not make excuses. By the way, none of this will matter if Yao grows into a better player each year (physically). Because if he reaches 24/14 one day. Then, it will put Yao in a new category. But he has to DO this. Not just talk about it (us fans). If he doesn't. Then, we can all be glad that at least we have a 20/10 player. I think the title of this thread says it all, "THIRD season the CHARM for Yao?"
