Stats & JVG: How efficient were we really last season?

Funny how seeing makes people believers. I'm waiting for Jumpman to jump on board (pun not intended).

 

OK, and that is YOUR opinion. As is marking YOUR words. This bbs is for discussion not contridicting, true? The Magic will be one of the most turnover prone teams? Fair enough, I see how you are taking a shot at Steve and Cuttino's game. Which is your opinion? True? Now once the season is over and the numbers are in the books, you have the chance to say "I told you so". But tryin to say it now is just bias which is too common on here now days, not like the good old days (97-00).

Now however, if you happen to be wrong and the Rockets don't produce on the offensive end. I hope you are man enough to accept being wrong and be a good sport instead of the immature insults you have attempted to use in this thread.

 

My opinion?? Its a known fact that Francis and Mobley are turnover prone. Its a known fact that Francis and Mobley need the ball in their hands to be effective.

Put 1 and 2 together and its pretty clear that the Magic will be turnover prone.

As for the Rockets, Yao, JJ, Mo are all slightly turnover prone, but not to the extent of Francis and Mobley. However Tmac, Howard and Lue take care of the ball very well, therefore we will be less turnover prone than last year, as a team.

This isn't just my opinion, this is based on these guys' history. Did you watch the game last night? When the starters were in, that was some of the best passing i've seen in years for this team. And to think, this is their third game together.

As for insults, i apologize if i hurt your feelings. Its just that i don't see any logic in the things you say. While on the other hand, even though i may not agree with everything Houkom says, i see that he has thought everything through and presented a good case.

 

I did say an average team could play for years and still be an average team, I think the peak of this Rocket's team is higher than years past but not elite championship level until it gets better players.

Ok.

Yeah. Have you looked at the West? It's going to be WILD!

Now there's a lot on your post about fine tuning and one step at a time, that's true, but I've been talking about right now. To me the Rockets aren't ready to be an elite offense with under 14 TOs and more than 92 94 points, better than last season, but like I said the Rockets will have to rely on defense first yet again.

 

Yep. Look at our current team like this....

WE'RE ENTERING THE FUN PART OF TEAM BUILDING!

What is the "fun part" you ask? It's what we have achieved so far. We have a competent coach, two smart young stars in Yao and McGrady. And a whole roster of very good role players.

The foundation has been laid. So, the "fun part" as fans is this -> We fine-tune from here...

So, most of the season will be filled with comments like, "Lets look for a better PG, or "Lets find a better SF," or "Lets find a better sharp shooter." Fine-tuning (or even finD-tuning ). That's the fun part. We wont be hearing things like "We need a new star" or "We need a leader." The hard part is out of the way. Thus, this is the *fun part* of being Rox fan today.

As McGrady said yesterday, "It's good to play with a REAL team." McGrady KNOWS! He senses it. And so do a lot of Rox fans! Enjoy the season!

 

Check this out...interesting! Who's your daddy?!

<TABLE align=center border=1 cellpadding=1 cellspacing=3>
<TD>Year</TD><TD> Teams </TD><TD> Player </TD><TD> G </TD><TD> Min </TD><TD> Players GT </TD><TD> FGM </TD><TD> FGA </TD><TD> FTM </TD><TD> FTA </TD><TD> TO </TD>

<TR><TR><TD> 2003-04 </TD><TD> Orlando Magic </TD><TD> Howard, Juwan </TD><TD> 81 </TD><TD> 2877 </TD><TD> 14.80% </TD><TD> 535.5 </TD><TD> 1,183.4 </TD><TD> 321.9 </TD><TD> 397.9 </TD><TD> 180.2 </TD>

<TR><TR><TD> 2003-04 </TD><TD> Houston Rockets </TD><TD> Francis, Steve </TD><TD> 79 </TD><TD> 3194 </TD><TD> 16.85% </TD><TD> (467.1) </TD><TD> (1,159.4) </TD><TD> (349.8) </TD><TD> (451.5) </TD><TD> (305.2) </TD>
</TD><TR></TABLE><BR>

 

Houkom,

Your figures are very good - and really bring out TO's as factor.

I think they correlate very closely to team offense and defense average points per game - which was my original point - but that doesn't take away from the fact that I think you are dead on on all your points.

Thanks for the number crunching and salient analysis!

 

I don't mean to throw preseason numbers in, but 19 assists and 22 to's?

I think some of you are over confident and maybe just too excited going into this season. But the same thing happened when Pippen came here in 99.

Really though, I hope everything DavidS and Tyler say come true because Houston diseaves to have a great team but IMO it wont be for at least another 2-3 years.

 

With scrubs playing half the minutes. When this will be the fourth game this new team has ever played with eachother.

If you don't mean to throw preseaon numbers in, then why did you? When you fully realize that anyone with half a brain will bring up what i just did. Unless... you didn't think of it yourself?

You say i use petty insults, but look at the "arguments" i have to deal with. I like to have a good debate, but thats only fun when your opponent is using their brain, ala Houkom. In this case its so much easier to just go quote my man Kuniva than waste my time explain basic logic to you.

 

MM,

Do you understand the difference a *single* preseason game and the *rest* of the season? Don't tell me all you can see is "19 assist and 22 TO." Brilliant!

Hey, how about this one? Gaines made a turnover at the end of the game! We're DOOMED! Or, what about this? Yao caused 5 TO!!! Oh, nooooooooo! Or JJ got 5 TO!!!!!! Help us!!!! That single game represents the rest of the season!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING! I mean come on...

Pisttt....did you even watch the game? It's obvious you can't even *see* what we are talking about when we describe changes in the way the team executes.

How about this...check out that win column for the first 25 or so games. Then, get back to me about how we are not as good as YOU think.

Yes, I'm THAT confident that we will be THAT much better than the last FIVE years!

 

Why are you replying me then? You just say the same thing over and over and it's just basically bs anyway so just shut up for gods sake. How long have you been posting on here/been a Rocket fan anywayz?

Posters like you are the reason why I've seen alot of great posters on clutchcity/clutchfans disappear.

If you are the future of what this bbs is coming to then I really feel for clutch and the gang for working so hard for a waste.

 

Dude, do you read? I didn't proclaim that the season is over because of one pre-season game! Why are my words always thrown out of context with you? I, probably more-so then you, want the Rockets to have a great season. But in this thread, people have been throwing up preseason numbers and saying how much better the team is, so why not?
Because I wanted to challenge the fact that people are saying how much better the Rockets look already, well, how do you people know? Pre-season games.... right?
Numbers from last season on different players in different situations really cannot be be made logic. How many players you see under-achieve or over-achieve after a trade and with a different system? Many.
Why did I throw in 19assists and 22 to's. Because I was just wanting to show that we aren't THAT much better already like the hype coming from the bbs is saying so far.

Do you not agree?

 

Forgot to mention, this is what I've been saying basically in my posts. I was not lashing out at anyones ideas or opinions, just stating my own and did not state that it WILL happen or that i'm SO confident that it will happen. I actually said that if what you all said becomes evident late into the season I'd admitt that I am wrong. I know that I'm not always right, but I don't really see the same sort of "sportsmanship" in the rest of you here.

If I agree with everything you say (even if it's against my opinion) will I be more popular with you?

 

Ok, let me try and explain it. And this is might be hard to understand. But there are good scouts and bad scouts. There are good coaches and there are bad coaches. There are bad players and good players. And all of them have areas that are in-between. Lots of grey areas...

Why are good scouts hired over other scouts that aren't that good? Could it be that they just *see* things that the others can't?

Now, some people (some fans) know what to look for in talent, how the game is played, how plays are executed, how players mesh, why some players excel and why some players struggle, why talent and team are just as important...Now, we're not perfect. But we can pretty much give a good measure of how the game is supposed to be played for the best possible chance of success. We may not be able to put it into words because it's internal to what we see with OUR own eyes. Maybe I COULD explain it to you on a black board where I would write out stats, show technique examples, do comparison graphs, and describe complex ideas like timing and decision making (actually show you on the court). These things can NOT be done on a BBS! There's a communication barrier.

So, you ask how do "we know" after a few preseasons games? Because to *us*, it's night-and-day. You may NOT *see* this, and we may not be able to "write it out for you in words (although, it has been TRIED many times)." Some of us are able to recognize it like a brick in the face! Yes, it's that obvious to *us*!

Put it this way...I've seen so much positive evidence (to me) in the last three preseason games (as well as roster changes that give their own type of evidence) than I have in the whole last FIVE YEARS COMBINED!

By the way....Pippen was an experiment. As soon as Rudy started to use him as a "Bullard" I knew it was going to be a failure (as well as other reasons due to Hakeem's knees and back). I always yelled at the TV (at Rudy), "Why is Pippen always out on the 3 pt line?! It's a waste of talent!" But that's another story.

 

OK I understand what you are saying, but I don't see how obvious it is that the current team is so great already. So I guess this doesn't make me as smart as everyone else.

I'll come along, but I cannot judge "guilty or not guilty" until I have some hard evidence (at least 40 games).

 

Not "great!" Not yet. But very, very good. And, will get better each game they play.

45 wins is not "very very good" just in case you are wondering.

55 is very very good!

60+ is great! (Next years goal)

Although, winning a championship is the ultimate measure of "great."