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Solving Illegal Immigration

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by thumbs, Jun 15, 2018.

  1. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Member

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    Okay, that was actually well played.
     
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  2. SuraGotMadHops

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  3. droxford

    droxford Member

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    Yes, it has. It's affected all of our lives, dramatically.

    https://www.fairus.org/issue/illegal-immigration/whats-wrong-illegal-immigration


    Illegal Immigration Threatens Our National Sovereignty
    Sovereignty is the concept that a state has authority to govern itself. The United States has the right to determine its own boundaries and who is allowed to enter and remain in the country and under what circumstances. Those who enter illegally undermine that sovereignty by disregarding our laws. The U.S. immigration system should be built and maintained to further our national interest, and Americans must protect our sovereignty by enforcing the rules we set and protecting our boundaries.

    Illegal Immigration Undermines the Rule of Law
    Our country has a system of laws – from the federal down to the state and local levels. We expect those in the United States to abide by those laws, whether the law relates to a person’s civil liberties, respecting one’s property, or obeying red lights. When a law is broken, there should be consequences. Those who enter illegally or overstay their time in the United States are violating our immigration laws and disrespecting our system of government a clear indication that they may not abide by other laws. When the Rule of Law is degraded, cynicism, corruption, social discontent, and chaos can ensue.

    Illegal Immigration Undercuts Legal Immigration
    Millions of people around the world seek to immigrate to the United States; some have spent years waiting for one of the numerically limited visas to become available. Those who choose the legal avenue often pay application fees, undergo medical screenings, submit biometrics and attend an in-person interview, spending hours ensuring that they have the proper evidence for their application to be adjudicated. Illegal immigration makes a mockery of their adherence to the rules, unfairly “cutting the line” and requiring the government to expend its resources on illegal aliens rather than on those lawfully seeking admission.

    Illegal Immigration Contributes to Unsustainable Population Growth, Affecting the Environment
    Illegal immigration contributes to population growth, overwhelming communities by consuming already limited affordable housing, crowding classrooms, and increasing the strain on public services like food banks, transit, and social services. Unrestricted population growth also has a negative effect on the environment, increasing the strain on our vital natural resources and harming plants and animals, including endangered species. Mass illegal migration is not environmentally friendly and has had severe consequences for various areas, from trash inundating border communities to devastation of the pristine rainforest of the Darien Gap.

    Illegal Immigration Harms American Workers
    Illegal immigration also hurts our workforce by taking opportunities from American workers and students. U.S. workers are harmed or disadvantaged by illegal aliens who will work for renumeration that is lower than the minimum or prevailing wage, often driving down wages for Americans. Additionally, illegal aliens accept unsafe working conditions that violate safety regulations. Illegal immigration’s impact on U.S. workers, in turn, places a toll on the overall U.S. economy.

    Illegal Immigration Threatens Americans’ Safety and Well-Being
    Illegal immigration impacts Americans individually; it is not a victimless crime. As illegal immigration has increased, so has the trafficking of drugs such as fentanyl, with drug overdoses killing 100,000 Americans a year. When illegal aliens are released into American communities without proper vetting, Americans are increasingly becoming the victims of illegal alien crime including hit and runs, assault, and even murder.[1] Illegal alien crimes are entirely preventable since the illegal aliens shouldn’t even be in the country in the first place. In addition, illegal aliens often steal Americans’ identities to live, work, and remain in the country.

    Illegal Immigration is a Burden on the Taxpayer
    The costs of illegal immigration to the taxpayer are numerous, but the largest costs are the education of their children, emergency medical care, and incarceration for those arrested for crimes. U.S. taxpayer dollars also support shelter, educational benefits, welfare and tax credits for those in the country illegally. Despite being ineligible, some illegal aliens also get welfare the same way they get jobs: with identity documents falsely identifying them as U.S. citizens, often obtained through identity theft or forgery. In addition, if they have U.S.-born children, they may collect welfare assistance in the name of those children. At the start of 2023, the net cost of illegal immigration for United States taxpayers – at the federal, state, and local levels – was at least $150.7 billion.[2] This number undoubtedly has continued to grow as mass illegal migration continues.

    The Illegal Alien Population is Massive… and Growing
    FAIR estimates that at least 16.8 million illegal aliens resided in the United States as of June 2023.[3] Since 2021, the number of illegal aliens crossing the nation’s borders has grown significantly. In Fiscal Year 2023, a record 3.2 million encounters with illegal aliens were recorded at America’s borders. In addition to those arrested, many illegal aliens have succeeded in evading law enforcement or Border Patrol, often entering between ports of entry. There were 1,174,385 known gotaways during the first two years of President Biden’s tenure, not to mention hundreds of thousands of unknown gotaways who avoided law enforcement notice entirely.

    In addition to illegal border crossers, a sizeable portion of illegal aliens in the U.S. consists of aliens who have overstayed their visas. While estimates have varied over the years, recent numbers suggest that visa overstays account for as much as 40 percent of the illegal alien population.[4] According to the most recent data provided by the Department of Homeland Security, in Fiscal Year 2022, nearly 854,000 nonimmigrant visitors violated the terms of their visas and overstayed in the United States.[5] Over the past four years, the total rate of visa overstays (as a proportion of those expected to depart) has increased, up from 1.21 percent in Fiscal Year 2019 to 3.67 percent in Fiscal Year 2022.[6]

    Amnesty is Not the Answer
    As millions of illegal aliens are allowed to remain here year after year, pressure rises from immigrant advocates to grant them amnesty. However, this is the equivalent of pardoning criminals en masse because it is easier than locating, arresting and detaining them. Amnesty, whether by policy or practice, encourages further illegal immigration and, by creating new “legal” immigrants out of illegal ones, adds dramatically to the future backlog of relatives abroad who apply for legal admission through chain migration. Amnesty would also be very costly.[7]

    The Answer Is…
    • Deterring illegal immigration by securing the border and detaining those who enter illegally;
    • Enforcing existing immigration laws, including detaining those awaiting their asylum decision and using the expedited removal process;
    • Encouraging self-deportation, especially by denying public benefits and the ability to work in the U.S.;
    • Collaborating with state and local governments to arrest and detain illegal aliens, leveraging law enforcement capabilities at all levels;
    • Making the electronic employment verification system, known as E-Verify, mandatory for all employers so that illegal aliens are denied the ability to work;
    • Tracking foreigners on temporary visas to assure they leave when required; and
    • Immediately removing illegal aliens who have a final order of removal by an immigration judge.
    Critical to the success of deterring further illegal immigration and reducing the current illegal alien population is single-minded support by our elected leaders for our immigration authorities in their law enforcement efforts.
     
  4. SuraGotMadHops

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    Ask Laken Riley's parents if illegal immigration affected their life.
     
  5. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    Yea its a very sad thing what happened to her, and I understand how angry their family must feel. But let me give you an example.

    This guy Robert Card, killed quite a few people, he was a conservative vet, with mental health issues.

    https://www.newsweek.com/robert-card-maine-mass-shooting-social-media-posts-1838068

    Now does that mean I hate all people with mental health issues, or veterans, or white or whatever he was??? Does that make logical sense to you?
     
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  6. droxford

    droxford Member

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    I hate murderers, including Robert Card.

    I don't hate all illegal aliens. Like I said, I think they're mostly peaceful people who want a better life. But they still should be deported. For the many reasons I listed previously, we should enforce our immigration laws.
     
  7. ROCKSS

    ROCKSS Member
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    I have no issues with trump going after "criminals" but I wish there was an expedited pathway for the folks in Cali who pick the fruit and veggies, the folks who handle all the cattle in ND and the Midwest and for the 10 folks my brother has who help him on his ranch. Hell, my cleaning lady sent me a text this am that ICE was in her apartment complex.......................she is a real criminal that one I tell ya. She is a single mother who has had a cleaning company for years. The whole gaslighting Americans about how there so EVIL was campaign rhetoric, 99.9% of Americans have never had a negative incident with an illegal alien but I bet a large % of Americans have hired an illegal alien. American voters are fickle, they can be gaslight very easily and maga does a great job about lying about it.................I wonder if ice has been in Ohio yet rounding up the Haitians who have been eating the dogs and cats. Man, I hope they leave all the guys at Home Depot, I have a house project coming up and need a few to help me out
     
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  8. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    And thats a fair point.

    I'll get to your reasoning in a second.
     
  9. droxford

    droxford Member

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    The ones who are getting paid below minimum wage? The ones who are putting their children to work?

    You can't claim to care about fair wage laws and child labor laws AND say you support illegal immigration. It's hypocritical to do so.

    And that's to say nothing about the negative impacts they have on American citizens (which I listed previously)
     
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  10. droxford

    droxford Member

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    I do, however, agree with your point that Republicans like to paint all illegal aliens as violent criminals, when, in fact, the vast majority are not.
     
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  11. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    Woke people don't care about anyone except for themselves
    The people on the d&d who want rampant illegal immigration want drugs from Mexico cause they love drugs
    it's not just illegal aliens, they just want ILLEGAL EVERYTHING
    @Salvy
    @CrixusTheUndefeatedGaul
     
  12. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    Okay first....FAIR is not a legitimate resource imo. But I'll answer this anyways.

    I mean this first point....is kind of ridiculous. All I can say is, it never has.

    Immigrants commit crime at a far lower rate than U.S citizens. Not something you should be worried about.

    May of these people dont have legal pathways, not only that they dont have the same rights that legal immigrants do either. Im sure some legal immigrants are a bit upset by it but..there are a lot more who are happy to have friends and family here.

    Uhhh...No bro. Consumption contributes A LOT more than population growth(thats a world problem, not simply a U.S problem).

    Immgrants mostly work in sectors where there are labour shortages and you're not taking into account their economic contributions.

    Again, illegal immigrants commit crimes at a far lower rate, the fentanly problems arent just going to go away cause you deport everybody.

    So again here they are exaggerating costs while ignoring contributions like paying taxes(the number by FAIR is likely wrong).

    The number here they gave 16.8, is a lie, its likely closer to 11 million. Im sure we'll we reach a point where its enough, but that's not right now at all. There are much more pressing issues at hand.
     
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  13. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    I support illegal immigrants.

    You want them to be seen as villains.... Foreign invaders.

    I see them as exploited humans.

    We are different. You are stupid. I'm average.
     
  14. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    Anyone who thinks deportations are going to make your life better, they arent. Its not gonna make you richer, and its not gonna make prices go down.
     
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  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    This is why Democrats are bad at messaging. They need to shout all the time "illegal immigrants, trans people etc are not your bosses. They aren't your landlords. Getting angry at these group of people is a useless hate endeavor that just poisons your soul"


    The problem with Democrats is they don't give the electorate a villain to hate besides their direct political opponent. Americans turn out to vote when there is something to hate.

    The GOP is very comfortable with using powerless groups of humans as these villains. Democrats aren't willing to while at the same time they have to protect their donor class and therefore they can't make establishment wealthy people the villains. Because then the long standing politicians like Pelosi would be the villains also if they went this populist route. And people like Pelosi and Schumer only care about clinging on to clout and power so they are stuck in this deep abyss where they are basically "institution defenders" and the Americans public is tired of these institutions. This class of politician is over. These type of politicians just aren't going to win elections anymore.

    This Democrats not channeling the anger Americans feel with their bills and cost of living towards something productive and more empathetic like wealthy investors and corporate executives created this vacuum for Republicans to step in and direct that hate towards the powerless groups of people that deflect from the capital owners.
     
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  16. Kemahkeith

    Kemahkeith Member
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    I grew up in Texas during the Ross Perot period of education so my math may not be that strong. But......
    Catching 1000 immigrants a day from a pool of 2 million migrants equals 2000 days to get the job done. Equals roughly 5.5 years.

    Bro is gonna time out of office before he gets it done. He is gonna need a bigger boat.
     
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  17. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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  18. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    A tale as old as time unfortunately.
     
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  19. droxford

    droxford Member

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    The US grants up to 675,000 legal permanent immigrant visas every year (not to mention the unlimited amount of spouses, parents, and children of US citizens who can be admitted). It sounds like you feel that that number should be increased, yes?

    Of the 712 million people in this world who live in poverty and want to come to the USA, how many more do you think we should allow to immigrate to the country legally? Gimme a number.
     
  20. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    Yes
    This is also similar to shoplifting , the poor kid who has no food to eat and the thug who’s going to resell the stolen goods are violating the same law.
    California learned the hard way by basically legalizing crime now they are rolling it back
    @SuraGotMadHops
    @Salvy
    @CrixusTheUndefeatedGaul

    Woke people can’t say the words “legal immigrants”
    Cause they like the word illegal more
    @basso
     

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