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Stats & JVG: How efficient were we really last season?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Houkom, Oct 15, 2004.

  1. Houkom

    Houkom Member

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    Following a very interesting and straight forward post by Tyler Durden (The Orlando Trade is Looking Like a Steal), I was so looking forward to see if we could demonstrate his theory with numbers, and came up with surprising results (I actually agree with the ideas he presented, although the conclusions are a bit rash :).


    Calculations are based on the very ideas he mentioned already: regardless of how many possessions you have, once a team has possession of the ball, it can:
    - Turn it over
    - Score a basket
    - Miss a shot

    A team offensive efficiency can thus be measured with the following formula: Successful possessions/Total possessions

    This can be estimated as:

    (Field Shot Made + Free throw Made/2 ) / (Turnovers+ Field Shot Attempted + Free Throws Attempted/2 )

    The most arbitrary measure is the free throw figures divided by 2 for estimated possessions because of basket + FT+ Foul situations, technicals... We could argue here.
    The basic result is nonetheless independent of the pace of the game each teams applies.

    Here are the results:

    1 Sacramento Kings 51.10%
    2 Seattle SuperSonics 50.45%
    3 Dallas Mavericks 50.06%
    ...
    5 Minnesota Timberwolves 47.82%
    ...
    8 Los Angeles Lakers 47.03%
    ...
    10 Houston Rockets 47.02%
    ...
    16 Orlando Magic 46.09%
    ...
    20 San Antonio Spurs 45.86%
    ...
    22 Detroit Pistons 45.26%
    ...
    29 Chicago Bulls 43.64%

    Surprising isn't it? Rockets are 10th over teams like San Antonio and Detroit and the main reason it is not relatively better than Dallas, Wolves or Lakers is because of its abysmal total of turn overs. It is incredible: 300 more TO than a high octane offense like Dallas!
    Please note the Magic's rank last year and consider their very good TO totals (26th). This very good news for us as we now have three of their starters.

    How come this ranking is so different than the actual end of season ranking? Defense.

    The ideal way to evaluate the defensive efficiency of a team is to calculate the Offensive Efficiency of their opponents while they meet. Alas, I do not have the numbers per team for this, if anybody knows how to get them, I would sure like to benefit from their knowledge.

    If this was available, the defensive efficiency would be the inverse of their opponent offensive efficiency. This would highlight directly if a team is a tough match-up to the other's style of play.

    As I don't have those numbers, I hope to have the next best available measure:

    I assume that our opponents have the same total of possession we have per game: As soon as you did something with the ball, score, miss, loose it, your opponent has it. This is a problem as the numbers of possessions per quarter are not always even and the slower the pace of the game is, the more this is an issue. On a season average, this should even out somewhat.
    The same caution must be taken for the free throws as mentioned previously.

    Once your opponent has the ball, defense comes in play: You can steal the ball, or make him miss and re-take possession: defensive rebound.

    Important: I do not consider blocks here as it would duplicate numbers: Either you block the ball and gain possession, in this case you can score, miss or loose it and your opponent has a new try afterwards => this is already in my totals.
    Or you block the ball, but do not gain possession, still counts as one possession for the opponent. This logic can be argued too, but blocks do not necessarily mean possession gain (I really do not want to be-little blocking, it does have an important psychological impact that can also go both ways). Ideally: if a block is followed by a possession gain it should count as steal too, in this case, I would be safe.
    Charges and offensive fouls (good defense) are much more problematic and that is an issue I cannot get out of the way. As mentioned previously the best thing would be the opponent's stats for offense.

    We end up with: Opponent Total Possessions - Defensive rebounds - Steals / Opponent Total Possessions, the lower the score, the better the team's defense.

    Again, not satisfactory, but let's look at the results, Defensive Efficiency:

    1 San Antonio Spurs 61.38%
    2 Houston Rockets 61.72%
    3 Minnesota Timberwolves 62.04%
    4 Indiana Pacers 62.33%
    5 New Jersey Nets 62.37%
    6 Detroit Pistons 63.06%
    ...
    13 Los Angeles Lakers 64.05%
    ...
    20 Chicago Bulls 64.37%
    ...
    22 Dallas Mavericks 64.99%
    ...
    25 Seattle SuperSonics 65.40%
    ...
    29 Orlando Magic 67.20%

    My biggest surprise here was the wolves' standing, apart from that, this pretty much what is expected in retrospect. I did expect Detroit higher. Maybe using the preferred method would adjust these standings accordingly. This is also where we could understand Orlando's deceptive season: Orlando had all the fire power it needed, it just lacked the defense to go with it. Most of the time you are hearing that: 'Tracy had no other star besides him', maybe we should reconsider...

    The defensive efficiency is probably misleading, some assumptions can be hotly debated and it only gives a rough estimate, but what I like, is that these number challenges a number of assertions like:
    'JFG offense is lacking', 'Mac Grady had no one to share the offensive load'. They also illustrate that Houston has under-achieved last season, probably due to the intangibles that make statistics so un-reliable for predictions :).

    In the end, I think these intangibles like experience, abnegation, execution and smart play at the right time, at the right place is what made Detroit champions and Rockets' early exit.

    Rockets management seems to be on the right course: combine JVG's & Houston's defensive qualities with Orlando's low turnover and offensive actors.

    Look forward to the season and feddback of other number crunching posters...

    I am trying to get 2003-2004 seasons' stats to apply the same logic and compare the Rudy / JVG 'effect'.
     
  2. Houkom

    Houkom Member

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    Well, after additionnal search, I found out that ESPN has opponents stats, I'll have to do the numbers again... :)

    Previous results were done with SI BTW.
     
  3. montevideo

    montevideo Member

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    You can't measure efficiency without considering attempts.

    I think the best stat for offensive/defensive efficiency is point score for / against.

    The efficiency issue are not all together accurate if you don't consider the total attempts - team's like Dallas get off way more attempt than Houston - so that with equal efficiency they still get more total points.

    So that brings you back to the bottom line

    Points for and points against and the difference.

    The rest of the stats are indicators teams use to incrementally improve their overall progress towards points for and against and winning games.

    Cheers!
     
  4. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Awesome post Houkom
     
  5. Houkom

    Houkom Member

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    Montevideo:

    Attempts are taken into account in the total possession: one attempt (Field Goal attempt) is considered as one possession.
     
  6. Tyler Durden

    Tyler Durden Contributing Member

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    Ah, taking my post to the next step. And i thought nobody read what i wrote, which took like an hour to write. :mad:
     
  7. Houkom

    Houkom Member

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    I apologise for this unwanted effect :)

    I thought that this topic was not confined to: did we steal anything from the Magics? :)

    I really appreciated your post, except that it was a bit harsh...
     
  8. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Total points scored is not a measure of efficienccy at all. Any team that has a faster pace will likely score more points, and have more points scored against them. A slower paced game, which would result in fewer points scored, is not neccessarily worse than a faster paced game. If you score on more of your possesions than the other team does, and limit your turnovers, then you have a very good chance of winning games.
     
  9. PhiSlammaJamma

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    I always refer to the hot babe quotient. The higher the ratio of hot babes in the stands the higher your winning percentage and efficieny.

    Hot Babe ratio/Efficieny = Hot babe qoutient
     
  10. Tyler Durden

    Tyler Durden Contributing Member

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    Harsh? Eh, at least i'm consistent.

    BTW for those that are interested, this is what we are talking about,

    http://bbs.clutchcity.net/showthread.php?s=&postid=1555350#post1555350


    As for your formula, great job. Even though it kind of disproves my theory. According to what i said, with turnovers accounted for, we should be worse than 10th best offense. I'm not sure if this will change it, but theres one error in the formula- free throw shooting.

    Free throw shooting has no relevance to the efficiency of the offense. A team can play great offense, cut the the basket for layups etc., but be a horrible FT shooting team. With this scenario, your formula would undervalue the true effciency of this team's offense. Of course missing free throws will cost you games, but we are measuring the efficiency of the offense, not how good the teams are. So in my opinion, the formula should be adjusted to ignore FT made and FT attempted.
     
  11. Houkom

    Houkom Member

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    Well, I agree, a higher number of hot babes in the stands probably increases the efficiency, but it does increase it for both teams. In the end, as both teams give the max, it probably exposes who thebest tean is!

    This is why it is better to compare your efficiency versus the one of your adversary.

    As a follow up support to moniker's post:
    It is indeed the case, this is why ratio of possessions are taken into account, this allows a fair comparison betweem high tempo teams' versus slow half court teams.

    Wichever teams manages to impose its style will probably be the most efficient for the game.
     
  12. Houkom

    Houkom Member

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    Tyler, it is good thing you mention this!

    I hesitated a long time before taking into account made free throws instead of total FT attempts! Afterall, a Ft is not only a free throw but also a foul for the opponent: you gain twice.

    The reason why i did include the FT% in the equation is the following: being efficient behind the free throw line should be considered as part of being efficient offensively.

    If you can't convert your free throw, you probably should avoid getting to the line to have a potent offense, confer the hack a shaq theory... unless you get all your opponents players out of the game...

    I had a hard time objecting against that...
     
  13. Tyler Durden

    Tyler Durden Contributing Member

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    Also to add on to my post in the other thread(which doesn't seem to be garnering as much attention, Damn you Houkom!), these two statistics pretty much sum up my point:

    FG% Differential

    1. Minnesota +0.048
    2. San Antonio +0.033
    3. Houston +0.03

    We are THIRD in the league in this stat, which combines offensive efficiency and defensive efficiency.(With the glaring fact that it ignores T/Os)


    FGA Differential

    29. Atlanta -2.6
    Boston -2.6
    Houston -2.6


    We are tied for LAST in the league in this stat, which is based mainly on T/Os. Combine these two stats, and you have your efficiency for your team.
     
  14. Houkom

    Houkom Member

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    Well, FG percentage is part of the ratio.

    And this ration accounts for TO, steals and so, while at the same time leveraging for paceo f the game.

    I am reworking the ration with my previous idea ( your opponents efficiency as an estimate your defenisive efficiency)

    I am also doing the maths for the previous year too, in order to see if Rudy / Gundy did have different impact.

    It will be interesting to see the 'yao' effect too.
     
  15. Houkom

    Houkom Member

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    'ration' is supposed to be 'ratio'.

    Too bad I cannot edit my post.
     
  16. Tyler Durden

    Tyler Durden Contributing Member

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    FT shooting is important to winning but is separate from the actual offense. Offense as in, Xs and Os, plays, etc.

    I wrote my original post in response to some JVG bashing, saying he sucks at coaching offense. My post was setout to disprove this.

    Whether your players make their FTs is not dependent upon Jeff's coaching, and anybody's coaching scheme. Its based on the players own ability. What IS dependent on Jeff is the plays we run, and whether those plays(our offense) are efficient.
     
  17. Tyler Durden

    Tyler Durden Contributing Member

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    Gotta pay if ya wanna play... ;)
     
  18. Houkom

    Houkom Member

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    Tough sell here, as expected:

    If you take into account you can play a style of game (cut inside, go to the basket) that generate a lot free throws, it is probably because your offense is more efficient for you if you do so: you'd better be a good FT shooter.

    No coach would like to set plays that exposes his players on their most glaring weekness.

    Especially at the end of games.

    If you need two points from anyone, you'll probably draw a play to have your point guard fouled instead of your 70% Ft shooting center.

    That is offensive efficiency as a direct consequence of a coach's decision.
     
  19. Tyler Durden

    Tyler Durden Contributing Member

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    But in reality, it doesn't work like that. Lets take the case the you brought up. Shaq.

    The Lakers are the second worse FT shooting team, at 0.693, thanks to Shaq. According to you, they should try to avoid getting to the line. But in reality, they are #1 in the league in FTA- 28.7.

    Also, players, in general, don't foul intentionally. They try to play good D, get blocks, but end up fouling. Therefore its hard to tell your players, "try to avoid getting to the line", since people don't actually foul on purpose. But does that make your offense inefficient? In my opinion no.

    I think we have a different definition of "offense". When i say offense i mean- the style of play, Xs and Os, the offense run by the coach.
     
  20. Tyler Durden

    Tyler Durden Contributing Member

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    AH! Au contrair!

    In my opinion, its the exact opposite. If a team can't shoot, they will be bad at- FTs, 3pts, midrange etc. In this case it would be in the best interest of the team to avoid shooting. The answer?

    "cut inside, go to the basket"

    This team will be much more efficient going for layups, even if that means more FTAs, than to settle for jumpers- which they won't make.
     

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