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Another injury signals our destiny: is it realistic to bench Amen ever again?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Mathloom, Jan 7, 2025.

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Who sits if Brooks/Amen are playing well when Jabari returns?

  1. 38%-shooting Brooks

  2. Budding Star Amen

  3. 6'11 Jabari who was hitting 40% of his 3's and playing really good defense

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. harold bingo

    harold bingo Member
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    This isn't a flaw with net rating. This is a presumed flaw in people's analysis of net rating. It is something you clearly have seen, but not something I've done here. So as I said before, I don't like being called out for something that I haven't done. He asked for an oversimplified brief explanation and I gave it.
     
  2. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Brooks is the guy the Rockets used to guard skilled big forwards.centers away from the basket. Amen is used more on the primary playmaker. I don't see Brooks sitting for JSJ this season. The only way I see Brooks going to the bench (not including after a trade) is if Amen is starting and Tari is healthy and starting.
     
  3. JW86

    JW86 Member

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    Lol no
     
  4. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    I'm assuming you believe its Jalen
     
  5. Kevooooo

    Kevooooo Member

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    Ultimately, I think Ime will put Jabari back in the starting lineup because he plays best next to Sengun and he hasn’t done anything to lose his starting spot. We haven’t proved to be better with Amen in the starting lineup.

    Ime isn’t benching FVV, DB, or Green. FVV and DB for the same reason, good shooters (historically, in the case of FVV), leaders and defenders. And green because he can explode offensively and Amen can’t yet.
     
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  6. bustamove

    bustamove Member

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  7. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    that-is-the-best-answer-we've-had-simon-cowell.gif
     
  8. mac_got_this

    mac_got_this Member

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    Amen needs ti start. It’s changes the profile of the starting lineup when he starts. I’d didn’t realize it before and was against it him starting initially but I noticed when he starts it’s better for Jalen. The normal starting lineup doesn’t have another person who can run with Jalen.
     
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  9. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    FVV hopefully wont be here next year so Amen can start. Brooks is our culture guy and does a lot of the defensive communication on the court.

    You can trade him for a low frp to someone but I dunno how that is gonna make the rockets better. Trading Brooks just so you wont have to worry about who starts seems like cutting off your hand so you dont have to trim your nails. It doesnt matter who starts what matters is who plays the most minutes.
     
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  10. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Come on JR, you know me. I was just thinking about the forward rotation when making the thread and brought up Green and FVV before you did. Can't edit polls after posted.
     
  11. BaselineFade

    BaselineFade Member
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    Yes. You can see it. Amen's pace is huge for Jalen in transition. The injury to Jabari is a tough blow to this team, but it opens up the opportunity to finally see some of our raw athleticism and speed on display. I think we will start crushing teams in transition. Fun ball is ahead.
     
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  12. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    An unexpected outcome of Amen starting:

    With Green/Sengun/Amen handling the ball so much, when they swing it to FVV my brain first goes "oh god which shooter are we going to have to hope makes this shot". But then actually FVV is the best spacer on the Rockets for his career (not his current season stats which reflect a ball-dominant PG). I feel like we just signed our best spacer mid season. Even though he's shooting 32% from 3 or he was 2 of 9 tonight, they guard him like he's a SHOOTER. That's so refreshing. With all this attention drawn away from him, he's basically going to be guarded by lesser calibre players moving forward.

    Which once again brings us back to.... If Amen/Green/Sengun is thriving - your only job is to put your 2 best shooters around them who are not negative defenders. That's it. When healthy, the two shooters we have that demand their defender don't give them space are FVV and Jabari. Even if Brooks shooting 38%, you could see they don't respect him as much as Jabari for spacing. I will say Brooks is getting more respect than he ever got. However, Brooks is the only bad rebounder on the team and one of the worst fast break players in decision making and efficiency. My completely unverified eye test has claimed in the past that Brooks' shooting declines when we play faster and I'd like to see if that happens in this coming stretch. If that's the case, Brooks stands out like a sore thumb.

    A very interesting twist, to me at least because I don't think anyone will beat Jalen out of his spot anymore. Amen and Green transition is effectively going to function as our 2nd best points creator after a much less frequent and more selective FVV-Sengun PnR. The problem with that PnR wasn't that it sucked, it was just not good enough to be one of the most frequent plays run by any team in the NBA. At that volume, the efficiency of that play is not something worth holding on to.

    As I said, this injury is not just an injury. It's going to make a decision for Udoka that, frankly, he didn't have the balls to make last season or this season. Hate to see injuries but I almost feel like the universe is watching out for us and Jabari will find his way back into the starting lineup for Brooks - barring a trade for a big forward better than him. I don't think it's FVV who will lose his spot and frankly, I don't think it should be even though he's played like ass this season. Green/Amen/Brooks can guard ANY 2/3/4 in the NBA and it's nice to now use FVV as just an emergency vet who nails open shots and can take over PG duties in the rare instances we need to calm down and protect a big lead or something.

    Wizards was a good warm up game for them.
     
  13. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Be careful guys, you don't know how many people were offended last season when I said pace can improve this team. 3 different people insisted increasing the pace simply would not lead to improved efficiency or move the needle. Accused me of wanting to just do something for Green rather than care about the team (although I told them, at least 4 of our core are better in high pace). Accused me of coming up with the whole thing just so that I can criticize someone else instead of Green. I have all your posts and especially you "Mr O", I know you're reading this.

    We have arguably 2 of the top 5 athletes in the NBA (Green and Amen). Even if you put your fastest defender on them and endlessly scout it, you're not safe beause your 2nd fastest defender is a snail compared to Amen or Green. Everyone's second fastest defender is too small or too slow. This mismatch will boost our offense and change our identity.
     
  14. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    We're approaching end times for the mindless drivel of: "these are the players we have so these are the shots we're going to get and unless we make more 3's or acquire a star, there is no other way to make progress or move the needle. stop saying bad words about my father Ime! We're nothing without him!"

    Watch what happens in the coming weeks and then when Jabari re-joins. Meanwhile, I don't think people realize there are some factors which can lead to very shocking results here:

    1) Inflated scoring numbers throughout the league
    2) Refs letting defenses play hard inside the arc, leading to more deflections
    3) Elite rebounding
    4) Amen/Green historically elite tandem in terms of speed

    This could very well lead to a historically elite transition team (statistically at least). There are some historical markers here. If you go from average transition team for a season to possibly one of the best of all time, that's what you guys love to call moving the needle. We haven't even explored Tari in this scheme at the 4 and whether Sengun/Adams can step up their outlet passing if Ime allows 1 extra TO a game in exchange for these 5-6 new points he's getting. Tari/Amen/Green in transition soon. Damn.

    Does that not move the needle enough for you? Should we take our lunch box and sit in the corner while we wait to acquire your dream top tier player who you can't stop blushing over? Or are you not done obsessing over the defense?

    Listen to me when I tell you negative Rocket fans: Ime will do it, you will love it and you will forget you acted like it was impossible. Again.
     
  15. groovemachine

    groovemachine Member

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    Fred or Jalen
     
  16. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    I agree with you but this is a hypothetical exercise. We're asking what you would do if Amen knocked it out the park and is getting recognized league wide as a star.

    Still start Jabari?
     
  17. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    I think Amen will continue coming off the bench this season and become a starter next season. No doubt he will get starters minutes and many closing opportunities. It's pretty obvious where he stands with Udoka.
     
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  18. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Fair but I don't think our record in 2 months will give Ime the luxury of tinkering with an equally successful lineup with the playoffs just one month away and chemistry established.

    It's going to be tricky. Amen could average 18/10/5/2 and a top 5 defender in the NBA. It will draw immense ridicule. Can't Jabari be calmly re-inserted at training camp? There will only be 1 month and playoffs remaining when he's back from injury.
     
  19. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member
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    I'm glad some people are seeing what I have been saying since before the season. If Amen ever leaves the starting line-up again, Ime should be fired or Stone if he is the one ordering it. Amen is our best player. Amen makes everyone on the team better. If Amen had been starting all year, he would be one of the 10 best players in the NBA. Jabari is just going to have to play from the bench the rest of the year, unless Dillon falls off or Ime finally has the balls to bring FVV off the bench like he should.

    All the bs about Amen's shooting preventing him from being a PG or he is only a transition offensive player has always been an ignorant take.. The more he plays, the more confident he gets. He won't be able to get his season averages up, but from now until the end of the season, he is going to average 20 pts and over 10 rebounds a game if starting. He will be also be first team defense. The only way team's will be able to stop him is by game planning for him which will open it up even more for Sengun and Jalen. FVV being off-ball is the best thing Ime has done this year.
     
  20. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    Very. Good. Point.

    Eight weeks is a long time and Amen might be anchored in by that time.
     
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