I agree it's unlikely. You can't fix stupid. Budenholzer has done a great job so far, right? Phoenix is probably headed for the lotter even with Durant and Booker. It is extremely stupid not to trade them both right freakin' now and tank for a high pick in one of the best drafts in years.
I don't think Jalen will work in the trade with his poison pill and both teams being over the cap. It has to FVV going out. I'm not really on the Fox train, but I'd do it for FVV and 2 non-Phoenix first round picks. If it works than you can re-sign him and use the Phoenix picks to build team depth.
yeah I meant in the offseason. I don’t see us being able to trade Jalen this season because of the extension/poison pill as you mention. I think it’s much more likely Sac trades Fox in the offseason, but if they’ll take Fred as part of a deadline deal, that would be great so we can actually recoup some value for Fred. I just doubt he’s appealing to Sac-town but maybe.
True, and I'm optimistic on Sengun, but Fox is also 27; so that Rockets window is sped up once we start cosolidating. By the time Sengun is in his 10th year, Fox will be 33.
I agree with this; I think people need to look at what King's is looking for if we're serious about this trade. For regular teams, 1st round picks, or super young rookie like Reed sound great, but that's not the King's situation. If they lose Fox, that King's org (and fanbase) do not appear to want to go into full tank mode. They been out of releveance for way too long. McNair's job is at risk as well, going into tank probably means he's going to get fired. A GM's self preservation trumps the long-term health of a team. A Reed is basically another 1st round pick, in which, even if pan out, means the King's fan base has to wait many years. Years off of Keegan's run and Sabonis' prime. In the friendly banter episode of Locked on Kings and Locked on Rocekts; the first people King's host asked for are Tari, Jabari or Amen. And yes Mr. Gatlin correctly said that front office won't likely offer them. But the point is understanding what Kings actually want out of the deal. The terror twins and Bari might not end up like a SGA, but Kings worry less about that than wanting a player, who contribute to winning immedaitely. This is why I say; don't blow your picks on the Kings, while I'm sure they're happy to take it off our hands; it means less to them, than if you were dealing with another team. They much prefer players who can play then have to wait on a prospect.
they can have Tari if it comes down to it, and nothing is stopping the Kings from using Reed, Cam, and whatever picks to get more of a win-now player for themselves down the road they can easily ride with Monk, Derozan, and Sabonis for the rest of the season while evaluating whatever young players they get from the Rockets…it’s not like the Kings are a playoff team this year
Yes, but the point is that picks, and Reed/Cam are no longer the centerpiece of the deal. If we're offering Tari/Bari/Amen, we don't have to put all the sweetners in there; it can be saved later for another deal. For teams blowing up, picks, Reed/Cam can be enough of a centerpiece. p.s. If Stone acculumated more draft assets during the tank era, we'd have more options.
so what about FVV, Reed (who I hear Sac is extremely high on), Cam and a pick? You think think that gets it done?
I don’t think he’s the answer either, but he’d be a huge upgrade to our backcourt and he’s just starting to hit his prime yrs. If nothing else he’ll be much more tradeable than Fred or Jalen. If we don’t have to give up our best trade assets, I’d be excited to make a deal. I’d rather have a better shooter, but again, for the right price, I’d love a backcourt upgrade.
He's an upgrade in the short term but it kind of pushes all your chips to a win-now mode which for me, I'm not ready to do just yet. We have FVV's 40 million coming off the books this off-season and Brooks the following season. We have a war-chest of picks and lots of flexibility. Most importantly, we have 7 players under the age of 23. We have plenty of time to find the right pieces and it looks like the way some of our players are performing, we will continue to have plenty of cap space.
Agree again, in a Fox deal, we almost have to put FVV in it. 1. Both (Fox / FVV) make lot of coin. Rockets could cobble our expiring to make the money work (any combo of Tate/Adams/Holiday/Landale...etc) but it doesn't address #2. 2. FVV is a heavy on-ball guard, and so is Fox. If Fox come here, one of FVV or Jalen have to go to the bench. Between managing egos and whever else, FVV and Fox on the same team would be tough politically for Ime. FVV and Fox are also both Kluch clients, if FVV gets less minutes because of a client of the same agent; adds complications. 3. Kings actually need a competent point guard, once Fox leaves, FVV is more than qualified. Now this is if it's mid-season trade. If in the summer, then one of FVV or Jalen can be swapped for Fox. FVV and Fox would be a short backcourt, but it can still work. FVV can play offball, and Fox be the main on ball guard. Also in general, a team with mulitple playmakers is a big plus on offense.
But at the same time why would the Kings make such a deal? If they are trading Fox, they are planning for a rebuild. You don't trade star players in their primes to start a rebuild and the centerpiece of the return is a 30 year old serviceable pg who is about to go on their downswing of their career trajectory. The Kings are going to want a young guy that will be part of the rebuild in return. So ya they'd probably want Jalen and picks instead of Fred and picks. That doesn't work out for this season due to Green's contract and I wouldn't want to pull off that trade either anyways.
Totally with you on being patient and not pushing all our chips in. On the salary cap front I’ll defer to the experts, but my understanding is that even with Fred and the expirings coming off our books we’d only have $20something mil for free agency, which nowadays doesn’t get you much. And 2025 free agency isn’t very good, especially for guards. As long as Fox is tradeable on a max deal, and as long as we get off Jalen’s contract, we should still have some flexibility with Fox on the payroll. To be clear, I’d only deal for Fox if we didn’t have to give up most of our best trade assets.
I think Fred would thrive in the off ball role here. I’m convinced his shooting efficiency is down because he’s doing too much on ball and our shooting guard can’t shoot. Don’t ask me why last year was so much better. mostly though, including Jalen or Fred in any deal that nets us a backcourt upgrade is huge. Not losing Fred for nothing is huge and recouping something for Jalen is huge at this point.
Green has that poison pill, so if mid-season FVV would make more sense. For the Kings, FVV can fill the non-tanking part, but FVV not likely to fill the contributing young prospect part. A jabari/tari/amen would be the actual centerpiece. The picks sound nice, but honesly without good play-now players, McNair might not be long enough to use all the picks. If they're getting a FVV and a Tari / Jabari / Amen, adding picks is straight up overpay.
3 team: HOU - MIA - SAC MIA: FVV (HOU) + Brooks (HOU) + 1 FRP Keeps Heat solidly in Eastern Conference playoffs picture. SAC: Rozier (MIA) + Adams (HOU) + Sheppard (HOU) + 1 FRP + 1 swap Keeps Kings respectable while adding top 3 pick for next season. Rozier holds the fort while Carter develops. Rozier becomes expiring next season. HOU: Fox (SAC) + Lyles (SAC) + Butler (MIA) + Robinson (SAC) Rockets have a team that can contend with Thunder. this year and into the future. Separate follow-up trade - send Landale + Tate + 2 SRPs to CHI for Vucevic Fox - Holiday JG - Cam Himmy - Amen Bari (IR) - Tari/Lyles/Uncle Jeff Sengawd - Vucevic
The whole point is that Phoenix would get their picks back from the Rockets in a trade if they blow it up.
