I’m starting to think the trade rumors might be having an effect on the team. Everyone seems unsure and unsettled towards the end of games.
This team has no room for drives. Not with the lack of shooters. Fox isn’t getting those lanes with our personnel. Our biggest need, by far, is guys who can shoot. Fox needs those around him too. A perimeter shooter would create gravity on the perimeter, drawing defenders out from the paint, making the action easier for every other player on the court. We have a finite amount of draft and player capital. Keep the powder dry, find the right dude. This isn’t a desperate team - we are in year one of being a good, young team. Find the right move and we can compete for a title. Fox is a the wrong fit.
You must not be paying attention. Defenders can press FVV far beyond the top of key (sometimes just across the midcourt stripe) and he doesn't have the speed to punish them by blowing by. He's too chunky, short and slow. Fox and other fast PGs would blow by the initial defender and draw attention from other defenders. In other words, FVV is a reason opposing defenses can successfully pack it in against the Rockets offense. His lack of height and speed also factor into why he feeds the post so poorly and is not an assist guy. There is also this insignificant stat where Fox shoots 10% better from the field than FVV. But, nah, they're near-equal players with little distance between them.
Right - but the Rockets had 4 straight years picking in the top 4 and whiffed on getting a tier 1 player… so the sad reality is that Fox may be the best option the Rockets get to have a high scoring perimeter player… the Rockets aren’t even the only team with assets, so it’s possible they wouldn’t even be able to get Fox.
Now is the time to make the move for Fox. Aside from the Spurs, who can really outbid us? Why wait until teams can catch up and start making moves to make it happen?
Fox is a major upgrade to FVV/Green. We can argue about whether he is good enough to be a #1 scorer on a title team - but the idea he isn’t a major upgrade is just silly.
Agreed. Fox puts himself into the conversation as a Number 1 option..... Fred and JG should never even be mentioned in star conversations yet.
I don't know why people keep saying you need shooters to drive when clearly this isn't the case. I mean even if you don't watch other teams, if you've watched the Rockets for longer than a few years, you'd remember Harden driving to the basket with no spacing back in the early days. If you also watch other teams, you'd also see that it's not like all other perimeter players putting up big stats are because they have shooters. The Grizzlies have been below average 3pt shooting for most of Ja Morant's career. Kings were 16th in 3pt% last year and 24th this year. And the only difference is because Fox shot 37% from 3 last year and only 32% this year. His supporting cast have been mostly the same both years. I mean is Fox the optimal player to add to this Rockets team? No. But he does bring the type of rim pressure this team sorely lacks on offense, and will clearly add a much needed gear if he's traded here. The only question is whether the improvement is enough to warrant all the picks, but that's hard to discern without knowing what the Kings can get from other teams.
This is maybe true if you accept that fred is completely done as a good player. Obviously jalen is trash so he’s a massive upgrade. We don’t need to argue about fox being a number 1, we know 100% he’s not, he has proven that beyond ANY doubt. He is only worth trading for if you think we are legit title contenders with him, which is obviously laughable.
You missed my point. I'm the one arguing Lillard is still good! Just that he's not as good as he used to be (i.e., the tongue in cheek semi-washed comment), which is true, and even with that... he's still clearly better than Fox. The poster I responded too argued current Fox is better than current Lillard, which is absolutely not true.
Unless you’re Steph, a PG will rarely be #1. The point is to add Fox to an already good team to help with our offensive woes. Stop thinking home run. You build the team and entice others to join. You don’t think guys would be more willing to come here if we had Fox?
If you trade Green you have no 2 guard. Cam isn’t a 2 and simply not good at this point. Tari isn’t a 2. Amen can’t shoot. Reed isn’t good at this point and not starting material. Fox isn’t already a good 3 pt shooter. Or we would get Huerter or some sorry SG in the deal. Which puts us in the market for 2 in the off-season. I would throw in: FVV Tari Cam poss 1 of the Nets 2027 picks
There are basically two philosophies here IMO. If someone prefers the Rockets to improve soon, be a significantly better team this year or next, to lock in a team that can win playoff series and make conference finals over the next few years, and make sure all the tanking was worth it - then trading the warchest for Fox makes real sense. I respect this philosophy but I don't share it. If someone prefers the Rockets to shoot our shot at being a deserving title team -- being legitimately on par with OKC, BOS, Wemby's team in the future -- at the significant risk of it maybe never working out and having tanked for nothing, then, seems obvious you can't trade the warchest for Fox and max him out until he's 33. Pushing in our chips for a player who is both older and not better than OKC's best three players means we'll never be as good as OKC. And that's the goal.
#1: Folks gotta realize it is VERY unlikely the Rockets will be trading for a top 10 player. To insist a trade must be a grand slam is just silly. This is what happens when fans overvalue the assets of their team (a common occurrence). Rockets don't need additional young players. Their next move is to leverage future picks + Jalen and/or FVV to improve one or both of the backcourt positions. #2: There is also a segment of folks on the forum who think every problem is solved by better 3-point shooting. During last season after the Nuggets won their championship, there was someone who kept arguing the Rockets needed to mimic the Nuggets model by have 3-point shooters at every position. What this person didn't realize is the Nuggets hit the 5th lowest # of 3-pointers in the NBA that year. They also had Aaron Gordon on their team, who has become the living, breathing definition of a non-shooter. Fox can create. Fred has the maturity to run an offense, but his physical limitations are significant enough that he's a liability. Combined with Jalen, the Rockets backcourt has a toxic effect on the offense when facing teams that can defend.
Fox gets into the lane with ease playing next to Derozan and Sabonis on a team that makes the exact same number of threes as the Rockets while being 24th in 3 point percentage But this team has no room for drives? He wouldn’t have the same driving lanes playing here? Fred can’t get into the paint because he’s short, fat, and slow…Jalen can’t get there because he’s weak and not that skilled not knowing how to create or utilize angles to take advantage of defenders Fox is fast, very skilled, and has an elite floater and midrange game Fox is also 1 of the best 4th quarter players in the league once again this season and won Clutch Player of the Year 2 years ago Fox scores far more than anyone on the Rockets, and at 58% TS, he does so a lot more efficiently than most on our roster…the only player in our regular rotation with a higher TS% is Amen Thompson Fox: 26 ppg on 58% TS Fred: 15 ppg on 50% TS Jalen: 19 ppg on 53% TS Sengun: 19 ppg on 55% TS
Have you watched the Kings? They also have no shooters and clog the lane with Derozan and Sabonis. Fox would actually be a good fit. Unlike say Booker who always has good shooters around him and a good offense, Fox has experience playing on a bad offense with non shooters. If we get him there wont be Reed Sheppard style let downs.
C'mon guy. Forget the facts. Forget that some of us (like you, apparently) have actually watched Fox play more than once or twice, cutting defenses into pieces in crunch time and proving himself to be a great closer. Forget that he shoots 10% better from the field than Fred. Forget that defenses would actually focus their game plans on guarding him, unlike FVV. Fox is equal to or just barely better than FVV and that's all there is to it. Rockets should wait on the perfect deals for the perfect players that have no chance of happening.
No. Not the same offense. Kings do not run their offense through Sabonis. Unlike Sengun Sabonis doesn’t play the mid post or isos on the elbow or high post area. Kings use Sabonis to set up a lot of variations of DHO’s either at the elbows, high post, or perimeter wings. He is constantly moving and cutting. Also some PNR. They also leave him at the 3 pt line a lot playing 5 out offense as he can hit those shots. Sabonis isn’t necessarily a post player and gets deep post position sometimes but his role is facilitator on the perimeter or DHO’s and constantly moving or cutting sometimes getting the ball deep or in positions where he can take someone 1-1 but he isn’t a dominant 1-1 player like Sengun who is heavily used on PNR, dribble drives, and mid post. This Kings offense as a whole is constantly moving with cuts, off ball stagger screens, curls etc. and their Center in short corner or 5 out. This is how Fox gets into the paint. He also plays in a lot of lineups with Trey Lyles as stretch 5. As I said a lot of the Rockets issues are due to their Sengun centric sets and lack of stretch 5.
