Saying he "sucked" is not entirely accurate, he's played very good defense and has avoided mistakes. He hasn't shot the ball well in limited attempts, and he hasn't been a aggressive looking for his own shot above all else as some would like, but he hasn't been detrimental to the team.
He has a 45% TS but ya his metrics are actually better than rookie jalen or jabari which is kinda wild. Its pretty rare for a rookie to be an actual positive player though.
Yeah the shooting has definitely been unacceptable, but on a very tiny sample size. I'm just happy that he's doing the other things right, the shooting will come.
Again what you’re saying is arbitrary especially using the term “suck”. I can easily say Sengun sucks as a player or how badly he “sucked” last night against OKC but I know better than to use that term against any professional player without a comprehensive and logical assessment backed with facts and analysis. I simply present other information or data others who rush to judgement and hate do not look at. But I see it’s futile as I am deemed a Jalen di*k rider. I am specifically talking about the vitriol and hate against Green which is unmatched on this site. I have already addressed the unrealistic and lofty expectations while also addressing the bias for Sengun. 2 different worlds no matter how many games the latter does not do what he’s supposed to do. I have pointed out several decision making issues and defensive issues with Sengun. Pointless since their minds are already made up. I already posed this question before. If Sengun was a 2nd pick and dropped 40 10-12 times a year. Gives us spectacular plays at times But is inconsistent in his performances while not being the focus of the offense as the offense runs thru Green and Fred. I do not believe fans would hate Sengun. They would clamor for him to get the ball and have the offense ran thru him. Go back to year 1 or 2 as people already demanded this. Go back to year 2 when people accused Silas of mistreating Sengun despite the fact that his defense was not good. When Silas challenged Sengun to be better this was seen as bullying and unfair. Meanwhile fans have no problem challenging or calling out Green to better. Again 2 worlds. 2 standards.
The silas stuff is nonsense, no doubt. I haven't seen any data that anyone has presented to show Jalen isn't bad. Also, Sengun absolutely sucked against OKC, no doubt about that. If Sengun was an inefficient over these past 3+ seasons as jalen, i would want him off the team though, not even a question. I don't really see the hate/vitriol towards jalen though outside of people posting stats and saying jalen sucks (which is totally fair).
Offensively, possibly.... but he was still bad. However he was SOOOO bad defensively it's hard to make the case.
The weird thing about this thread is it's nearly entirely discussed in a vacuum lacking context for the team's situation. Here are the three facts about Houston's situation: - They need a long term SG - They need a reliable shooting and playmaking starter if they want to complement Alpi best - Whether you like Jalen or hate him, he is a team asset you need to maximize ...all this other stuff about "he was the 2nd pick so he should be X" or "we need a guy who can do X so he should do that" is irrelevant. Jalen is who he is - Houston drafted him, tried to make him a PG which failed, tried to develop him without meaningful vets around at first which failed - Jalen deserves some responsibility, so does the team for misjudging his talent or his development needs. Regardless of what got us here, the above three things are the only thing that are true at this stage. We need a long term SG who can hopefully hit deep shots and hopefully playmake. Those players are tough to acquire and they often come with pretty high price tags and honestly there might not be one person available who can do both(who are good shooters AND playmakers - Butler is a good playmaker but bad shooter, BI is a better shooter but bad playmaker) or they may not be SGs - they might be SFs or PGs(maybe Brandon Ingram or Lamelo Ball are the play)....or they might not be the right age to our core(Jimmy Butler). ...and then you have to ask yourself the most important question which is - is trading Jalen Green plus no doubt more of our lotto guys AND picks to "upgrade" going to be worth the value we lose in depth? Maybe that costs you Tari(who goes from untouchable to touchable seemingly every other game) and Reed too plus picks. You are either trying to trade for that players(cost you more depth) OR sign that guy in the FA market which is a remote possibility that someone is both willing to jump teams and willing to sign with Houston and willing to not get that larger max bag that goes with resigning(sign and trade?) and will Houston have that available near max-ish cap space to sign someone outright after extending Jabari, Amen, etc? Probably not. Once you look at it from that perspective you realize the trade route is the more likely scenario which is 100% why Houston had to extend Jalen to retain his cap value for an eventual trade. One more fun fact - Jalen's contract expires the same year as Devin Booker's who is the only immediately obvious person who checks all the boxes of position, proven skills, age, and maximizing the draft assets we have of Phoenix's and is one very old Durant injury away from being on a very expensive non competitive team(unless they can go star shopping in 27 when Beal's contract falls off). The context we lack in this thread is there aren't really any "gettable" answers to replacing Jalen immediately available so trying to ride his upside might be the only thing we can hope for at this moment. While I agree the odds are slimmer by the day based on history, but none of the pandemic athletes necessarily busted out of the gate either so maybe the unique situation of those players means our hopes aren't totally lost just yet.
Ya ya i know, it's been kinda a bummer that most of the jalen believers are gone because i was really hoping they were right and that there was something i just wasn't seeing. I guess i'm just coping.
Yup. His offense has gotten worse since then, but his defense has improved enough to where he's no longer one of the worst players in the league, he's just a normal bad player. Sheppard is kind of the opposite, his defense has been good, but his shot (in a VERY tiny sample size) has been unacceptable. I think if Sheppard was given more playing time since day one, he'd be looking pretty good by now but Ime simply isn't a competent enough game manager to pull that off. He wants to run essentially 7 man rotations, running just a few guys into the ground and not caring about developing anyone....or offense in general. In some ways, he's worse than Silas for young players.
I'm saying this is why he's inconsistent, yes it is an eye test, but if a guy is having games where he can't break ten points and he's supposed to be a scorer, that is a problem. If you look at SGA, look how easy it is for him to score, look how crafty he is. Look at this for any of the great scorers, they get past their guys with ease and when its tougher defenders they are crafty enough to draw fouls or still score on them. With Jalen it's all either he blows past a guy and if he can't, then its a tough defended jumpshot. That's not the recipe for a player that is going to drop 20+ efficiently every night, it's just not. What I mean by calling your shot is simply saying, I got a mismatch, this man can't guard me, and so I'm going to score. Brooks does this often, sometimes it works out, sometimes it does not, but the reason Edwards is used as much as he is is because he is VASTLY a better player. Like I don't know what else to say about it, Edwards EASILY blows past his defenders and finishes strong. It should be no argument that Edwards is VASTLY better than Green in almost every aspect of the game outside of speed. If Green is deferring to Sengun that's a Green issue. Last night we needed someone to step up, he had the chance to do so and he didn't. I do not have bias against Green. I do not root for players, I root for the team. I WANT GREEN to be the next Kobe, I DESPERATELY want that. Why would I be biased against him? I want all of our guys to be the dream prospect. I want Sengun to be Jokic, Green to be Kobe, Jabari to be taller Klay Thompson, Amen to be Magic Johnson, Reed to be Steve Nash, Cam to be Melo. I want all the best for ALL of the players on this team.
It’s ok, we won’t be having this discussion once JG gets traded next year. Hopefully him and FVV will be gone.
