And when I see posters attack Francis is threads that are not even about him such as you do sometimes I wonder if slept with your significant other. The fact is you go back and look at this thread and the Francis bashers came out first as they usually do.
just a thought.... since Francis have been traded away... can we just wish him luck and dun bash/support him in any way? Its just kinda weird reading these post when he is not playing for us anymore... We are, after all, Rockets fans isn't it?
pgabriel, One very important distinction that separates Yao from the Gasol's and Brad Milller's of the world, which you have overlooked in focusing on numbers, is that he is one of the rare low-post players who commands a double-team whenever he gets the ball. Guys like Miller and Gasol can't make that claim. Look around at all the NBA Previews coming out right now...it is almost unanimous that Yao is one of the top 10-15 players in the league entering this season. And this consensus is from writers who get paid to analyze the league and its players; if you think that the entire world is wrong, and you are right, than I guess Yao really isn't one of the top 10 talents in all of basketball. Personally, I'm going to go ahead and assume that some of those people who are placing Yao so high know what they are talking about. Only the truly 'elite', 'franchise' big men get the kind of respect that Yao gets on a nightly basis from the rest of the league. When he gets the ball on the low block, unless Shaq is guarding him, he is almost impossible to stop one-on-one. You have to at least concede that. Add that to the fact that he is only entering his third year, and I think it is clear that Yao is a rare basketball talent just beginning to blossom. Yao is at, or near, the very top of NBA big men right now; only a handful of C's or PF's can clearly claim to being better. Here's a short list off the top of my head: Duncan, Shaq, KG, JO'neal, Nowitzki, and maybe one or two others. Pau Gasol/BMiller/CWeb/EBrand/BWallace/Sheed/Amare are not as valuable, plain and simple. If you don't agree with that statement, start a thread asking if we should trade Yao for any of the names above and see what kind of response you get. And it's not just the opinion of those on this board; any coach/GM/player/analyst will tell you that Yao is much more valuable than any of those players, which puts him in the select company of elite big men like Shaq, Duncan and Garnett. He's not on their level yet, but he is on the doorstep, and MUCH closer than Pau Freakin Gasol! Besides, if you are going to use the numbers argument, Yao's were better across the board than Steve's last year, so no matter how good you think he is or isn't, if you're going to base it on numbers, you have to admit Yao was better last year than Steve.
I guess I'm one of the many who had great hopes for Francis but was ultimately disappointed because he did not show great improvement after his first year or two. In the end, the fact that Francis and Mobley both took more shots than Yao Ming shows why they had to go. They could not fully buy in to the fact that we had to become an inside-out team, and so we didn't have a choice but to break the team up and try again. Getting TMac, one of the best five players in the league, is a bonus because I was ready to trade Francis and Mobley for much less.
My only point is this, some people make the case that Francis held the Rockets back last season. The Rockets were a good team that finished right around where they should have given their talent, give or take a few games. I’m not talking about what Yao will do in the future, I’m talking about what he did his first two seasons in the NBA. Yao probably will become a franchise big man, but he wasn’t a franchise big man. And to sit here and argue like he WAS the type of big man to lead a team to fifty wins and Francis some how held he and the rest of the team back is just not fair. BTW, on a per minutes played basis, Francis and Mobley didn’t take more shots than Yao.
I wanted to leave this alone but what makes you think he is closer to being an elite player in the NBA than Pau Gasol? Pure opinianated crap but such is the lifeblood of message boards. Pau Gasol is better than Yao Ming. My 'opinion' will be proven out.
You could not be more right. I think the thing I liked most about watching the new Rockets Is the abscence of ball hogging guards. How many time would we watch Steve or Cuttino driible down look around for 22 seconds and then throw up a a ridculous bomb. I am glad both Steve and Cuttino are gone. Both had attitude and would not have given this team the fresh start it so desparately needs. In the next couple of years Yao will hit his prime and he neeeds ball handlers who are smart and have maturity around him. Not just someone who is interested in individual street theatrics basketball.
And I bet you were one of the people who all thought these same writers were wrong when they gave the ROY to Amare.
DavidS, you, I, and many other posters who felt Francis was not everything he was advertised to be had nothing personal against him, we just felt he made far too many fundamental mistakes. Since he was running the offense, this was chronic problem. I think the organization finally recognized that the team as whole was suffering, thus, the new beginning. For Francis' sake, I wish he could grow about 5" so he could become the best small forward in the league, the perfect position for his skill-set. As to the devotion certain fans have for him, I understand somewhat, but I remain largely mystified.
Isn't this thread about the relative merits of the trade; I believe Francis was involved in the trade. One of the funniest posts ever was after a Francis bashing someone wrote, " and pgrabriel will be here in 10, 9, 8..." And even funnier, you showed up soon thereafter. Can I assume that you will be following Orlando this season? You still think I have malice against your beloved Steve. Once again, I have no personal issues with Steve Francis. For all I know, he is a warm, wonderful, loving human being. I did not like the way he played Point Guard. Apparently the Rockets agreed with my view, because, NEWSFLASH He is gone!
MemX, Find me one coach or GM in the entire league who would trade Yao for Gasol straight up, and I will show you a coach or GM who is about to be fired.
Too funny; what a joke. If Jerry West could trade Gasol for Yao straight up, he'd do it in a heart beat, along with any other GM in the game.
Stevie was the focus of the team pre-Yao, but the bottom line is once you get a chance to get a player like Ming, you have to shift the focus of your team. Any team with a creating, scoring point guard would not benefit or mesh with Ming's skill set. Baron Davis, Marbury, or any point of that nature could not be on this team with Yao. It looks like they (Stevie and Ming) were more in each other's way more than anything. The change was needed, for both players to get better IMO, and it happened. I expect both players to improve this NBA season.
Well said Little... It's not that I dislike Francis; he just wasn't meant to shine on THIS team. Let him go back East where a guard-led team has a better chance to win. But we clearly came out on top with Tracy.
Of course, because Yao still has 'potential' and GMs get stupid when potential is concerned. That does not make them right. I agree the majority would rather have Yao than Pau but that does not make Yao better than Pau. This argument will be ongoing until they both hit their prime. Since neither has even hit their prime yet, it is still very debateable.
Take off your homer glasses, dude. Yao is already a better player than Gasol, a fact that I would bet (for real, wanna bet?) will be proven true this year. It has nothing to do with potential, it has to do with the half foot and 65 pounds Yao has on Gasol as well as the already impressive skillset Yao brings to the table. They may be close, but you can bet that if CD would trade Yao, Jerry West would trade Gasol along with just about any other two players on the roster to get it done.
I agree with this opinion also. I knew Francis’s days were numbered here as soon as Rudy found himself to have a center who maybe would one day be able to be the centerpiece of the offense. But what I have a problem with is fans who complain about this guy like he is a complete zero. Francis has been playing his type of ball his entire life and he has been successful at it his whole life. He led two undefeated junior college teams at two different schools. He led Maryland to the most wins they had in school history at the time. In only his second season in the NBA the Rockets had a winning record in a lopsided League with most of the good teams being in said Conference. I look at some of these teams in this league that have numerous years of futility like Denver, Washington, etc. and it amazes me that some of you guys complain about a player who carried this team to a winning record after only one losing season. He has failed at one thing in his career, and that’s adjusting to playing with in an offense focused on the center. And being that he would have to completely change his game to that, I can’t really knock him all that much. But Steve’s individual career numbers rank up there with some of the best players in the history of the game. Go look at Drexler’s career numbers, Grant Hill’s, Scottie Pippen’s, Francis’s number are right up there. The guy has been a very fine player in his tenure as a Rocket. And I will always defend him against ridiculous statements like he made teammates worse.
Of course, I mean...It's so obvious that the GMs, people who grade talent and make personel decisions in their career don't know as much as you do. I mean, gosh, all these guys that have reached the very top of their professional field are so stupid and are wrong because a Memphis homer says so. It's much more than the simple majority that would pick Yao.
pgabriel, you had me... ... and then you lost me. Nice take, otherwise, though. I've bashed Steve in the past, but now that he's gone, there's really no point in doing so anymore. The fact is, he's with the Magic now, and I wish him all the best with his new team. I think we need a new Rockets whipping boy on this BBS, lest pgabriel breaks his back from carrying the "SF3 Defense" load all by himself. (Boki/Sura, I'm looking in your general direction.)
