ClutchFans Game Thread: Rockets @ Thunder 10/9/2024 (Preseason)

I’m concerned about the starting unit. They had a habit last year of not starting games well and having to rely on the bench to close the gap. This year Ime may not have much patience. I’m curious if he will eventually change things up.

 

So many things I feel like saying but won't. It's just the pre-season. But God damn am I watching a few players like a hawk the first 15 games of the regular season.

 

We Can Do It!!!!!

 

I think it’s silly to jump to conclusions about our young players after 2 pre-season games. There were more negatives than positives this game, but they were also playing a great defensive team and the no. 1 seed last year.

Sengun looked good. Stronger and hitting his FT’s is a really good sign.
Jalen is useless when his shot isn’t falling and great when it is. He has to get rid of the ball much more quickly when double teamed.
Amen was up and down. Great defense as usual. Made all the right decisions when passing (he can’t help it if his teammates can’t stay in bounds on perfect passes). He is too often a poor finisher. No turnovers and 3 assists. Hit a nice floater, but shot still looks putrid, hopefully jitters on the mid-range.
Brooks was as usual. Hit wide-open 3’s which we need. His defense would be good sometimes and terrible other times. Still a foul machine.
Tari absolutely stunk it up, but he is probably more rusty than any player on the team. He will end up being a super sub before the year is out.
Bari was horrible. When he tried to force the action he mostly failed. Hope for a bounce back game.
Cam was bad and didn’t show much better decision making. He is still too raw to start.
Sheppard was good on offense and ok on defense. Has to have help to get open 3’s. Made good safe passes, but has a ways to go on defense and showed teams are going to take advantage of his size on that end of the court. If he plays this well the rest of pre-season he may get some rotation minutes. We desperately need for him to be a knock down shooter and not be hesitant to put it up.
Holiday should never have been signed. He is constantly hunted on defense and is a mindless chucker.
Tate can still be helpful off the bench, just not for the Rockets.
McVeigh won’t get much of a chance, but might develop into a decent bench guy in a few years. Nice stroke and isn’t afraid to mix it up. Did look like a deer in the headlights on defense.
Hopefully Ime won’t take too long to make the roster decisions and get the rotation guys more game time together. This team needs to develop confidence in each other to succeed.

 

So is there any point in me going back and watching this one?

 

The tricky part of only shooting 3s and doing layup or dunking drills is that his midrange bag is not expanding.

 

It is just a preseason game oh wait why did the thunder played like a playoff game ?

 

I'm copying my post over from the Sheppard thread because I think it applies here too.

If I was running the show this would be my lineups.

Starters:
PG - VanVleet
SG - Sheppard
SF - Brooks
PF - Sengun
..C - Adams

Bench:
PG - Thompson
SG - Green
SF - Whitmore
PF - Eason
..C - Smith

Starters have the best chance of spreading the floor and keeping defenses on their toes with that lineup and the bench has the best chance of railroading the opposing bench. The scary thing is how many holes the first 3 Top 4 picks have in their games (Green, Smith, Thompson). They need to be on the bench.

One other thing, I think we need to move on from Jabari sooner than later. I had a lot of hope for that guy but he seems to offer almost nothing. If a package of him and picks could net us Ingram I'd jump all over it.

 

I do think Reed and Fred can play some minutes together depending on matchups, but as a full time duo theyd be lunch meat. Itd just be too easy for opponents to get mismatches.

 

Holiday is an end of rotation guy and got signed for only 5M. He already knows the system and wont raise drama if he doesnt get PT. Yeah he's not very good, but he is just there for emergencies anyway.

The wings got a double debuff being guarded by Dort and Caruso, those are monsters in lane defense. Jalen, Cam, Tari and Amen got dominated but should be better with time.

 

We played worse than in Utah, which is credit to OKC's defense too, but I am not convinced at all about growth from Green & Jabari in particular. Green still goes to his spots too often rather than take the shot that's available. Jabari still plays very weak, relies on his fadeaway too much and just doesn't have much going for him right now. I was happy to see Jalen's confidence in his 3pt shooting and Jabari taking it strong at the start of the 2nd half.

Then there's some of the role players I'd like to speak on, also in relation to the team. First is Reed who is just money from the midrange and can be our main shooter off the bench as well as our PG. Especially since Cam is underwhelming. I fear he is all athleticism and me mentality and will never get it. All those shots trying to go at a big body or even several bodies is just not smart basketball. In general I feel we don't play all that smart. There's a lot of 1-on-1 and taking turns on who goes up for a shot - take it into the lane and make a play.

But Cam wasn't the only one doing that attacking 1-3 guys, Tari did it, Amen did it, even Jeff. I need them to clean that up sooner than later, because I feel we're much better than we're showing. Granted, we will likely not find our stride until 20-30 games in anyway, but we need to come out of the gates strong to show we've actually changed and what Ime's really instilled with a defensive first mentality actually pays off.

I have little doubt our defense is going to be solid from the get go, I saw a lot of good defense and us going after it, especially loved the Amen and Tari duo. There were a few plays where both were attacking the glass and going after the guy with the ball defensively and it's seriously disruptive. It was also funny to see that Tari was going after rebounds like he always did, but there was no need for it because Amen was also / already there. Amen's second jump and ability to tip it in really is a luxury since we don't need 2-3 guys to crash the boards when he plays.

In this sense, I really hope Ime doesn't just throw the best 5 out there as starters, but really looks at who work best together and to me Amen should be a starter because he can be more valuable to them with the smaller FVV and Green + Jabari not known to be great rebounders or at least strong at it. Amen does so he can be that roaming wing. Jabari would in my opinion then be best served off the bench where he can take advantage of the bench units.

I would also consider Jalen, but given his contract year there's too much incentive not to start him. FVV should be a starter, there's no discussion there. Brooks does enough still also to warrant a starting position. Then Reed can be our main PG off the bench with Tate as a secondary ball handler at the 2/3/4, Cam can play the 2, Tari the 3, Jabari / Jeff the 4 and Adams / McVeigh / Jock hold down the 5. McVeigh has shown enough to make the team imo. I liked Tate's energy and Williams still seems to have some upside, but just not on our team.

I really hope Ime is open to playing with the starting line-up and minutes are not just handed out but earned. Excited about seeing who gets to play and hopefully the youth will start to take minutes away from the veterans soon, since I want them to show they can handle the pressure and grow up fast. But I wouldn't be surprised if it takes well into next year or even next season to see it all pay off, if we don't look extremely different at that point with a few of the youth traded in for a "star".

 

Team has no answer to Hartenstein, Chet, SGA, Dort and Caruso.

Hartenstein's playmaking is unreal and he is a Homeless Joker in the High Post.....or Sengün

 

6'2 SG as the full time starter along with 5'11 pg? Meanwhile we have the 6'5 and up guys all rotting on the bench?

Ingram??? So you want all the cap spent on Ingram and FVV?

lol wtf.

 

Big thing I saw last night... OKC sharing the ball & Rox jumping at pump fakes.



Oh... and McVeigh's HUGE nutz... let 'em swang

 

We're a dumb offensively team

I was impressed with OKC. Every player knows how to initiate a play.

 

Alright after a night's sleep I can have some takeaways. First the good.

1) Sengun. Is. A. Star. His bag from last year is there and Chet is no match for him. This is a problem for OKC in a potential playoff match. He's too fast for Hart and too strong for Chet. Some of his screens to free up players looked Adams-esque. Defense on point outaide of a few missed assignments. Dont care. Pay him.

2) Reed. Our best mid range shooter already. Finally had a silky 3 go down. Getting his sea legs still but once he's free on a screen, you're dead. Against a great team no less. Defensively was very active and much improved from the Utah game.

3) Amen. Any questions about who would be the lead ball handler with Fred out were answered (at least until Reed gets there). Night and day difference between Amen running the show and Jalen. More conviction with his shooting and even though he missed, he did have a floater in the lane that I liked. Currently our second best player.

4) McVeigh looks like he could be something.

Aaaaand the bad.

1) Jalen. Great opponent. On the road. Bad Jalen. So the pendulum swings. He can't break down good or fresh defenses still so he resorts to hoisting 3s like in the 2nd quarter. At this point I don't care what he does against bottom feeders. 0/1 in games where he needs to actually show something. He clearly is the only starter who can't really play a half court style and it shows. It's Year 4.

2) Jabari. The game just looks like it moves too fast for him. Still can't put the ball on the deck. Still can't play off of teammates. Still doesn't cut. Still loses defensive assignments. Will judge him this year but first two games have been blah. Might just be a 3 and D guy and that's OK.

3) Tari. Looks the same. Missing layups at the rim. Can't dribble. Can't really shoot. Love the kid but I don't know what his value is. Still think he's worse than Jabari.

4) Cam. Game high 4 assists shockingly. But he may have been the worst of the 7 last night. Offers no danger as a downhill player against a set defense. Settles for bailout 3s (coughJalencough) when against a good opponent. Still a bull in a China shop.

 

Jalen Williams is going to be a superstar. He is their best player in my opinion. We can compete with OKL if Jalen is playing decent. Caruso and Hartenstein were great additions. I think they will earn the no. 1 seed again. Our defense is going to be elite this year. We can compete with anyone because of it. Jabari and Jalen have to step up offensively for us to take the next step this year. Sheppard was a good pick, but he will need all year to be a difference maker for this team and he and Jalen would be one of the worst defensive backcourts in basketball. If Jalen doesn’t step up, we won’t make the playoffs. Ime needs to turn over the offense to an expert. He is the right head coach for this team, but he is pedestrian on the offensive side of the ball.

 

Very good assessment and very objective. I hate knee jerk proclamations after 2 preseason games and this board is full of them. You did a very good job of breaking it down. If Sengun can make free throws at over 80% for the year and quit hesitating on wide open 3’s he will be a top 3 center.

 

Last year it was fun watching Sengun abuse Chet (although Chet got better as the season went on and got the best of the last matchup). This year with Chet getting stronger and the addition of IHart, okc can’t be bullied down low.

Jalen’s consistency, overdribbling, and forcing shots is still an issue. I hated watching him run the floor. He needs to get to the mid-range anc knock down those shots.

Through 2 preseason games I don’t like Bari’s game at all.

I liked what I saw from Reed; agreed his mid-range is Chris Paul/Steve Nash. Made some great passes.

amen is not a point guard. Use him at the 3/4 where he belongs and feel good about it. The closer to the rim the better for Amen (hey that rhymes).

Cam just relying on his athleticism. Still no great feel for team ball.

Landale trying to tank his value again?

reserving judgement on Tari until we play regular season games.

Dillon looked like Dillon. We know what he is.

when Reed or Fred are not on the floor the offense needs to run through Senhub

In conclusion, we are still a sub par team without Fred. Yes it was OKC, who I predict will be in the NBA finals this year, but you could just see that we aren’t close to good enough. Just 2 preseason games. We’ll see if guys blossom in the regular season. But without Fred I just don’t see the rockets being remotely a 500 team.

 

Just my 2 cents on comparing Houston to OKC.

OKC has a big 3 who are all insanely good 2 way players. Shai has a 6'11 wingspan. JW has a 7'2 wingspan. Chet 7'6. They can all score efficiently at all 3 levels.

If you want to go with Alpi and Reed as our top 2 prospects, then Fred I guess would be our third guy? Jalen? Even our best players have flaws that their best players don't. Our lengthy wingspan players are Tari and Amen who unfortunately don't possess any sort of a offensive scoring package. They have dudes like Joe and Wallace who fans would want as starters if they were here. Their core is light years ahead of ours.

If Alpi and Chet are a wash where do we find any real advantage against this team?

We need to stay in our lane and temper our expectations as fans. Focus on making the play in or hitting your over on the win total.

The reality is that there is no comparison when comparing these 2 young teams.