Fire Espada

The same, I'm giving him a break because of his lineup options. But there are definitely things he needs to improve on.

 

Yea, there was some very questionable moves throughout the year and as much as I don't think he will be the long-term solution you have to give him another year, maybe the experience of year one will help him. I do think we need to look at his staff

 

I have to ask. Why wouldn't you go with Pressly in the 8th? ALL season long, the formula was Abreu in the 7th. Pressly in the 8th. Hader in the 9th. How many times did we see it play out just fine? If I had to guess, the success rate would probably be higher than the failure rate.

Pressly last pitched was on 09/28 and was on 3 days rest. Every past Astros managers would have gone with Pressly no question asked. Abreu did his job after a walk. Pressly did not after walking a batter. Hader having to come in and clean up Pressly's mess did not do his job either.

End of the day, your 8th and 9th man did not step up. Tigers did.

 

The same.

Had the astros see him as a long term manager, they would have given him more than 1yr contract.

 

I was down on Espada hard at the beginning of the year, and it can't be denied that he made some objectively questionable moves earlier in the season. I came around on him big time by season's end, but AJ managed circles around him in the WC series. AJ did much more with much less.

Espada is still growing on the job, and he may be an excellent manager, but for for this season and with this roster, we couldn't afford to give a guy a chance to experience growing pains, especially in the playoffs. We could have done better if we hired a manager with more experience. I was big advocate for Mike Shildt (who has the Padres rolling right now).

 

We are only saying this now because it worked out for Hinch.

He almost fugged up by throwing the rookie out there. Had the astros put up crooked numbers in that inning, baseball world would definitely be asking WTF was hinch doing. But, he can thank the astros' heart of the lineup to bail him out.

 

I was the one who brought up this point, so I'll answer.

I don't agree that the formula worked out just fine throughout the year. I personally don't think Hader and Pressly had particularly strong seasons, and given that they struggled in their assigned roles from the start of the season, they should've have been utilized more situationally to maximize better matchup opportunities for both (and maybe include Abreu here as well). After all, this is about the team winning first, and who gets saves under their name second. Now, if one of them proved to be a wipeout pitcher regardless of matchup, then perhaps you would've assigned that one as the closer and played the other more situationally, but that did not seem to happen.

Let's fast forward to the last game, where in the 8th, the Tigers had the top of their lineup coming up, by all accounts their best hitters, and 4 out of 5 of them were left handed. This included a guy in Carpenter who Hinch did not even play in the first game, simply because he is awful versus lefties, but elite versus righties. You bring in Hader, who also has extreme splits favoring him against lefties and you might've forced AJ to pinch hit for Carpenter, probably with Ibanez. After that, bring in Pressly to face the bottom of their lineup in the 9th.

I am not saying any of this would've mattered in the end, as ultimately, and like you said, players have to perform. But I do believe in trying to put your players in the best position to win, and I don't think Espada was particularly adept at that when it came to the bullpen and maximizing matchups in their favor.

 

I’d have been really tempted to come with Arrighetti to relieve brown and take it to the finish line if he pitched well yesterday. I don’t blame Espada for not bc that would have been a super ballsy move, but would have been mine.

 

This is well said. Unfortunately we didn't get it done

 

In 2001 I remember Dierker flipped Billy Wagner and Mike Williams for this exact reason...Chipper Jones then proceeded to launch a 3 run homer off Wagner in the 8th.

These decisions are HARD. Nothing about how Espada managed the end of the game would have been a slam dunk decision either way. Pressly just failed and created a mess, Hader couldn't clean up Pressly's mess.

My main gripe with Espada was using Hader in game 1 when we were down 3 runs. I can't help but think that had an effect on him being used again in that spot in Game 2.

The worse coaching performance against the Tigers was the hitting coaches, the game plan and approach was awful.

 

You're mis-remembering.

They hit Mike JACKSON first... then hit Billy.

He did bring in Jackson vs. Dotel... that was the change. By the time Mike Williams is being brought in, damage is already done and lead is lost.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/HOU/HOU200110090.shtml

 

You are absolutely right. Forgive me it was 23 years ago. I remember listening to that game at work.

Very similar situations then and now. Closer brought in early to get out of a mess, couldn't get out of it.

I hated Mike Jackson, seemed like he always screwed up.

I also remember Dierker bringing in Chris Truby as a pinch hitter sometime during that series in a really big spot. I was like wtf?

 

Pressly should of been outed after 2 batters. Didn’t we already know the script when Hader came out, 3/4 was here saying comes the potential grand slam before the 3 runs scored. If you brought in Spaghetti, or Kikuchi, there would be an element of surprise, this is a must have 1 game. Instead, we gave Tigers our scouting report. If Hinch had to do a do-over again, he would pitch relief with G.Cole in 2019 WS.

 

No we didn't.

We were without like 5 pitchers.

Verlander was not in game shape either.

Okay - and the Tigers were better than the Astros the last 40 games of the season.

It was a two-game sample.

Also the last 4 hitters in the line up were garbage.

I am not saying that Espada is some special manager or tactician but he isn't why they lost the series.

They could only pick from whom was available.

If there is someone clearly better, then they can replace Espada.

He is the manager - he does hit or pitch or field.

The Astros lost because half their line up was AAA caliber and the pen didn't come through.

 

I just don't think it is ever advisable to bring in a starting pitcher to come and get out of a mess in relief. Regular relievers are used to being in that spot, starting pitchers are not. That is the same reason why Hinch used Harris to be the bridge between Grienke and Cole in 2019, it just did not work out. Had Harris got out of the 7th inning mess, Cole would have pitched the 8th and 9th, clean.

If you want to say Espada should have brought in Kikuchi or Spencer at the very top of the 8th, I 100% agree with you. We had the luxury of still being able to put forth a viable starter in Game 3 had one of them tackled the final two innings of Game 2.

 

For me, the bottom line is that, given Hader's lack of dominance all throughout the season, he shouldn't have just been given the closer role carte blanche. It should have been situational, and if that would have been his usage during the season, we would have been better off. That type of agility of bullpen management could potentially have put us in a better spot to face the Tiger's lineup in the top of the 8th. Obviously, this does not guarantee results in that specific game, but I do think the odds would've been more in our favor with that strategy.

And yeah, our hitting approach, not only during this game, but pretty much all season, left a lot to be desired. Bregman and McCormick, in particular, went from being selective hitters who regularly worked counts, to being free swingers, so not sure what happened there.

 

omg i still have ptsd from that game

 

Espada will and should get another season.

Pitching coaches are great - I hope Murphy doesn't get poached.

I have no idea how well Cora and Snitker have done at coaching and identifying areas of improvement. In the end the players must execute and you can't fire the players.

If the team decides Cora has been here long enough and a new voice could help, I'm ok with it. But I honestly have no idea how good he is. I have read great things. But who knows. I would be fine with him returning too - I guess.

 

You mean Cintron

 

THREE runs over 18 innings will lose you a lot of games….top, middle and bottom were ass. Hunter is a real dawg so we got that going for us which is nice….