when ichiro is mentioned as an mvp-caliber hitter, he is overrated. his slugging meagerly outpaces his average; although, his high 800's OPS is nothing to sneeze at. saying it's astounding that he broke this record is not overrating him. damn near everyone over 250 hits did it between 1920-1930. even with only 154 games, it appears to have been easier to rack them up back then (people, like sisler, actually hit .400 back then w/o it being a huge media story for the ages). watching him destroy pitching with hit after hit with so much focus on the pursuit has been amazing. i'm not sure why ichiro doesn't hit for more power, because he appears to have it. i remember before the home run derby, when all the All-Stars had batting practice, ichiro stepped in and i was expecting to see some hard line drives. instead, he drilled the first 4 pitches for homers and either 2 or 3 went into the upper deck. i was amazed he could hit it that far so easily. i think possibly the pressure of getting to this record (and the fact the team sucking made the record really the only thing to play for) made him become exclusively a slap/infield single hitter because that was the surest way to rack up hits. now maybe his single percentage is right in line with the rest of his career but it seemed this was definitely an extreme season in the singles department.
The way that it is being argued that Ichiro has more games, you could argue that Sisler did not face a single non-white opponent in his career. It makes just as much a difference, if not more so.
He hits this way because it's what he's best at. This is his style, to swing at a lot of pitches, and try to react to the ball just as it gets to the plate. I think it's been shown that when he tries to be more selective with his swings, like he was doing earlier this year, it just doesn't work. Hell, if he wasn't trying to change his style at the beginning of the season, he might have 300 hits by now, and then we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
It very clear that in any sport you can put an asterik next to any record and make some kind of debate about everything there. That's the nature of the game and that's what makes it interesting. Everyone has a different view on what is right or wrong or what they think you know. For every record there is a debate available for it. As far as Ichiro's power. I know he has it and probably could use it more, but I don't think he gets that many good pitches to look at. If you notice most of the pitches he hits are pushed opposite field or infield singles sometimes. He does what he does by hitting crappy pitches sometimes. He doesn't try to do too much with the pitch like other players. He knows he can't drive a low and outside ball out of the park so he slaps it for a single the other way and that is just great hitting. As far as MVP this year i don't think he should be considered just because the fact the team sucks and all that he has done for the team was for nothing. If he is getting on base all the time and they are driving him for runs that win games and they go to the playoffs and more then you can say hey....he is a very valuable player on there team cuase he does get on base for them to drive him in. But this year he does not deserve to be an MVP....remember it's not a MVP for only power hitters etc...you have to look how valuable the person is for their ball club.
I don't think Ichiro is overrated. Look at 2001 when he won MVP. Seattle won a bunch of games because they had good pitching and in the offensive side, Ichiro was doing his thing and his teammates were able to drive him in. That year, Ichiro was the catalyst for their offensive. So calling him one of the best players in baseball isn't overrated. Calling him MVP for this yr probably isn't right, but realize that he's having a better season than his MVP season.
I was listening to the Dan Patrick Show a couple of days ago and heard an interesting viewpoint from Rob Dibble. When thinking of a great leadoff hitter, one thinks of a guy that gets on base a lot. Dibble suggests that a great leadoff hitter also needs to work deep into the count, allowing the 2-3-4 hitters an opportunity to see all of the pitcher's pitches. Ichiro is not a very selective hitter, and is a league leader in seeing the fewest pitches for full time players. Since Ichiro doesn't help out his team in that respect and gets mostly singles, Dibble said he would rather have a player who performs like Juan Pierre of last year or even Michael Young of this year. In fact, Ichiro has 753 total plate appearances and has seen 2637 total pitches (including 19 intentional walks) compared to Michael Young's 730 plate appearances and 2705 pitches. Combined with the fact that Ichiro is a contact/slap hitter who rarely flies out and has almost half of the extra base hits that Michael Young has this year, I can see why Dibble would rather have Young as a leadoff hitter over Ichiro. I do not think this takes anything away from Ichiro's abilities as a singles hitter and his accomplishments, but no way he could be an MVP with the year that Vlad, Ortiz, or Manny is having.
How can anyone say that Ichiro is overrated? He batting a league leading .373. Is he MVP? I'd say no. Is he the best hitter in the league? Again - I'd say no. I think Bonds (I know he's not liked) is the best hitter and MVP but that's another thread. But Ichiro does what is asked of him and lives within and maybe over his talents. Overachiever? Maybe. Overrated? No.
I don't think he's overrated at all. If possible to acquire him, I'd do my best to get him in an Astros uniform unless it meant hindering our slim chances of keep Carlos Beltran. He gets on base, has great speed, a great arm in the outfield with a ton of range. People fail to realize he's a great outfielder to boot, and is a great situational hitter who can hit for power when necessary. I could just imagine our lineup with him. 1- Ichiro 2- Biggio 3- Beltran 4- Bagwell 5- Berkman 6- Lane/Ensberg/Lamb/Viscaino 7- Everett/Lamb/Bruntlett/Vizcaino 8- Ausmus / Chavez 9- Pitcher Speaking of which, while Chavez doesn't call as good a game as Ausmus, I'm far more impressed with his defense, and his quick arm in throwing across the diamond. Granted he does make some iffy judgement throws in dangerous situations, he's got one of the quickest most accurate arms I've seen in the game. I also like his bat more than Ausmus as well, albeit marginally.
Ok, after 154 games, Bonds had 68 home runs. So is the home run record 68 or 73? Because saying it's 73 makes it seem like Bonds beat Ruth by more than he actually did.
Puedlfor you're a hater. haha. Ichiro is really good. I think if he were on a contender he'd definitely be a viable MVP candidate. Think about it, he's been on base over 300 times, can steal bases, leads the league in intentional walks, on a good team he'd be leading the league in runs as well. I think if you lead the league in hits, average and runs, then that's something. I say this as a Manny Ramirez fan. The only people more devastating at the plate than Ichiro this year are Pujols, Beltre, Bonds, Edmonds, and Vlad Guerrero (maybe). Ichiro is better at defense than all but Edmonds on that list. Anyway, Ichiro is awesome. He's not overrated. Oh yeah, about the record not counting because Sisler did it in 1920 in fewer games. Did you watch baseball in the 1920s? Me neither, but I'm pretty sure it was a different game back then. Also, the 162 game season has been around over 30 years right? how many people have come close to 250 hits even? I look at the most hits list, and it's Ichiro and a bunch of guys from 60, 70 years ago.
Another thing to think about regarding Ichiro... I think Ichiro is a bit like John Stockton in that Stockton isn't like a MJ where he can pretty much win all by himself if you surround him with good players. No, Stockton needs another great player. By himself, as great as Stockton is, he can't make his team contenders. Yes, so we say MJ is better than Stockton, but that doesn't take anyway from Stockton's own greatness. Same as Ichiro. He isn't Bonds, but he's one of the best in his position that just broke an eighty yr old record, that's greatness right there. Also when people say Ichiro is the second best player in the game right behind Bonds, I think what they really mean is that Ichiro is the second most talented player. Yeah, you probably want Vlad and a few others more than Ichiro, but in terms of pure baseball skill, I have no problem ranking Ichiro second even though there are a few players you should pick ahead of him if you were to build a team.
I listened to that too. Personally, I think Rob Dibble is an idiot. He gave a bunch of reasons, and when Dan Patrick checked the numbers, Dibble was wrong most of the time. He also claimed that the reason Ichiro is overrated was because his team wasn't going to the playoffs, and he didn't make any of his teammates better. That's why he'd rather have Juan Pierre - except Juan Pierre's numbers are worse, and he isn't going to the playoffs either! The pitches-seen stat posted above is interesting, but it only translates to about 1 pitch per game. Is that significant? I find it difficult to say that it is. That being said, I don't believe he should be an MVP candidate this year. His team sucks. He's barely scored 100 runs, which is what you're looking for in a leadoff hitter, other than getting on base. You know the team sucks when Ichiro has the second best slugging percentage for a regular player on your team. I still love to watch him play, though, he is the most unique player in baseball in my eyes. And to watch him gun down runners is pretty cool too. One of the great things about Ichiro's chase is the baseball history aspect of it. I never would have heard of George Sisler and his remarkable season if Ichiro had not been approaching the hit record for a season. I also think that once Ichiro starts losing his speed, he's going to change his approach and become more of a power hitter. We've already seen that he can adjust to major league pitching, and once he can't get infield hits anymore I think he'll try to start driving the ball more. No facts here, just speculation
