You shadow boxing my dude. Finding imaginary people. Check that out dude I'm I never seen someone say Jalen Green has "high IQ". I've heard people disagree with "Jalen has the worst IQ on the team" type of rhetoric. Jalen's bball IQ is not that of a lead PG. And about okay for a 19-22 year old scoring guard entering the league. I don't know what you think Booker read his first 5 years in the league doing his thing on 20-30 win teams for 5 years before sniffing .500 ball.
What you call downplaying Green is, showing your statistical arguments are worthless, it is not about hating green. On/off stat doesn't show he had the most impact, or the similarities between green and booker, luka or ant that are advertised are not real. Or the number of 30+ point games in a season is not a strong indicator(which for no reason never requires context!), and which actually is quite similar to Sengun's number of 30+ games by the way. I and some others point out these things. This is not bashing or downplaying green. Well expressed in this post here. I just quote a part of it.
Just wanted to pop in to say that my opinion is always the very best, and thank God because it’s the only thing I have in this world.
Maybe this is a language barrier issue? Someone says Green has some of the worst impact on the team's offense. I respond showing something to consider that might mean he isn't anywhere close to being a horrible impact on team offense with his on/off offensive impact numbers. You see that as some type of threat to Sengun because you are a only fan. See me showing that according to Cleaning the Glass that Green has the second highest on/off impact on offense only behind FVV isn't me telling you that he's better than Sengun on offense. It's countering someone's claim that Green is horrible for the team offense? Do you understand the difference? It's a point to consider against a narrative that Green had the worst impact on team offense, not a statement to prove he is the best offensive or second best offensive player on the team. I think that one stat showing that it's higher than Sengun is offending you and making you believe I'm trying to say he's better than Sengun. That is a insecurity issue with you Notice every time I bring it up. It's after an extreme negative claim about Green claiming he's completely worthless on offense which discounts his ability to break set half court defenses down and generate easy looks through secondary or tertiary assists. This also shows the Shrodinger's optimism on your part. Green is horribly inefficient. Why would you then have any optimism as you claim? These are the reasons I have optimism .I'm giving them to you. But you seem to believe I'm trying to say he's the best player on the team? When I only use these context to counter claims of "he's the worst", "he's a scub" or "he's a bust" and you get offended by it, it signals to me that you need people to shut up when people claim that Green is horrible and not respond with any countering context to the claim that "Green is horrible".
due to the 3 yr stagnation even regression in shooting efficiency both inside and outside the arc given the abundance of minutes and shots I think for people to think that its more difficult than easy to have an improvement in shooting efficiency is a natural/realist thinking
Okay. Cool. Then just be honest and say you are pessimistic. It's not a statement about whether that pessimism is earned or not. I'm just expressing how the term is misused here. Saying "he won't improve" is a pessimistic take. I'm not saying if the pessimism is earned or not.
Jalen has flashed in all the areas you guys trash him for - IQ included. To say he wont be anything of value because of his first 3 years is crazy. Success is not a linear path for everyone. Statistics without context are like t*** on a boar. Jalen was never touted as a great shooter. He is a scorer. He breaks a defense and opens up things for others with the attention he gets. The funniest thing is you say you'd be a fan if Jalen reaches 38% on 3pt shooting. Do you know how many more shots per week he would need to make to reach that number? 2 or 3. To say that is insurmountable and that he should have been able to do it by now continues to miss the point that not all players progress at the same rate. Its taken Jalen a few years just to learn how to play team ball and even more importantly meshing with an elite post player. His archetype is what wins meaningful games in the NBA its why Udoka is as patient as he is. An open court/3 level player that can single handedly bring his team back from the brink or outgun an opponent. You see that on every single championship team for the last decade. You bring up Sengun and as great as he is he wont be the reason this team wins a championship as-is. The modern big man MUST stretch the defense. There is no way around it. Either Sengun learns how to shoot outside of 10 feet or Jalen hits a few more 3's per game. One of those things has to happen in order for this team to take the next step organically or you trade for a player that CAN do those things. I agree with you. Jalen is fantastic at getting to the rim, but terrible at finishing. My side of the coin says that more experience and a stronger body will help him there. I'd assume you would say that "it should have happened by now" and therein lies the conundrum. Getting to the rim is probably the hardest thing to do on an NBA court. I'd say Jalen gets shafted on a ton of non calls when he drives. You may not agree. I would assume Ime Udoka will not tolerate bad defensive effort and has yanked Jalen out of games more than any other player because of that. Still seems like Udoka loves him some Jalen Green -- why? Udoka saw first hand what a Tatum and Brown can do to a defense. You nurture those types of players and offer patience and when they bust out you surround them with + defenders and reap the rewards. The blueprint has been there for all to see. Find THAT GUY who can score from anywhere on the court and make the game easier for those around him - whether thats Jalen or not go find HIM (or hope Segun can be HIM) if we are going to be a contender again. It wont be because we are the best team in the league at making baby hook shots from 3 feet. Shooting was a teamwide problem. And as I type THIS comes across the ol' feed! LOL --- yeah suffice it to say Pat Connaughton and Brook Lopez are probably not the missing pieces of a championship team!
If that pick is unprotected i'm doing that trade in a heartbeat, bucks are gonna be in the wilderness completely by that point. I have thought about this recently though, i do generally believe in the jalen archetype more than the sengun archetype, but who has won that you would classify as the jalen archetype?
The NFT dunking contest was among the most entertaining contests, and he finally and barely made a dunk.
Calling me brah shows me that you don't want to get in a serious discussion. That's fine. To your point, "I don't think he'll improve" isn't pessimism. It's realism based on what he has shown in the past. Are you saying that any opinion that something won't improve is pessimism? That doesn't make any sense. I think Jalen will look similar to how he has looked the past three years. He has made small improvements in some areas. He'll make small improvements this year. That's a realistic appraisal.
You mean, maybe my english is not good enough, because my username is AlperenSengun. lol, I am the only fan and you are what? Yet, you are complaining about people bringing in jalen's nails into the discussion. But you see no harm into going out of basketball discussion when it suits you. As I repeated many times, there is nothing in this discussion about sengun, you are the one trying to get it into that ground, or the sengun only fan ground. Apparently you think about yourself defending green against extreme criticisms, but it certainly doesn't come through that way to me. Add that you call almost anyone with a criticism a hater. I do think there is a gap between what you have in your mind, and what comes across when you type things. And I have given you at least a couple times why I am optimistic. I will not do it again. (or in your style: maybe you don't bother to read my post, and have this fictional character in mind)
Being a "realist" and "pessimistic" aren't mutually exclusive brospeh. It just feels like you are saying things to create the perception you aren't a hater. I mean you are trying to change the meaning of "pessimism " just so you aren't seen as a hater. It's okay.man. You can come out. The worst thing that will happen is that people like me will reply explaining why you are wrong. You can ignore those replies.
Your English is fine .. They just attack you because they got nothing else to fall back on. They use the old 'I am the Native Speaker, therefore I am better than you' shenanigan, do not fall for it and give in!
Champions: Tatum & Brown, Jokic, Steph, Bron, Kawhi In the mix: Luka, SGA, Brunson, Maxey, ANT, Halliburton, Donovan Mitchell Giannis type players who are defensive monsters are the outlier here, but Im sure we could dissect why/how that MIL team won it all. Hint: 3&D. Pegging it the "Jalen Archetype" is problematic because you are still comparing a young player with many warts to the transcendent talents in the league and he is not there yet. It boils down to game changing players who you can give the ball to and they can go make it happen. You cant sag off of them, but you cant press them either. Good offense will always beat good defense in one possession games in todays NBA. I'd love to see Jalen with the ball MORE in game defining situations to make sure that is the type of player we have (or not). Same for Sengun. Give him the rock more with the game on the line and lets see the DNA.
Ya agree with pretty much all this, Luka obviously is light years beyond tatum or brown though, neither of those 2 are legit franchise guys (brown obviously isn't close). Bucks won because the nets got injured, they would've been out in 4 or 5 otherwise, they never built a true championship level team (primarily cause giannis has a harder time in the playoffs). Jokic, bron, steph are top 10-15 all timers, that's pretty much what you need to build a long term title contender that doesn't rely on everyone else getting injured.
Apparently you think being called a hater of a NBA player is equivalent of using outdated toxic masculinity beliefs of gender roles to judge humans and their work ethic when it comes to "going outside basketball discussions". Being called a hater of a NBA player is strictly within the confines of basketball discussion that has no relevance to judging the character of a human. But apparently you think it does. You haven't given a reason to be optimistic besides platitudes while getting offended when anyone tries to defend Green from extreme negative claims. Again, Shrodinger's optimism. Please with detailed analysis using context explain your optimism for Green again. I'm trying to find evidence that this is a problem with how I convey my beliefs vs you not being able to properly read English. Have I ever brought up the concept of Green's impact on offense merely from milquetoast observations like "Sengun is currently a much more reliable and efficient go to offensive option"? Or do I only bring it up when someone says something along the lines of "Jalen Green is the main reason why our offense is bad"? If there is data from a reputable advanced stats site that shows that Green has the second highest statical on/off impact on the team's offense only behind FVV, it's obvious I'm implying that it's obviously wrong that Jalen Green is the largest culprit of our offense being bad. It's merely a metric to consider the very extreme claim of "Green is the worst player on our team for offense" is wrong. That's it. But you get offended by it which makes me think with the combination of your username that you like just be triggered this one stat has Green "higher" even though I don't use this one stat to just say "Green is better than Sengun".
I haven't trashed Jalen and I haven't said he won't be anything of value. You must be mistaking me for someone else.
Funny thing is Luka was only a 33% 3pt shooter through 3 years as well - only 35% career. OBVIOUSLY the guy does much more in terms of passing, generating foul shots and creating mismatches for others, but the threat and aura he has on the court will make a defense sell out to stop him even when his shooting stats are not otherworldly. Jalen will never be Luka (relax Jaters) but the threat of breaking you down and exposing the soft part of a defense is similar.
You said he you expect not much more improvement from him. You can think it's realistic and I'm not here at this moment to debate the "realism" of that take. I'm here to tell you that's still a pessimistic take.
