ClutchFans Game Thread: Pistons @ Rockets - Vegas Summer League 7/15/2024

It isn't erased - it just doesn't mean much to me in the larger context (4,000 points). I think it has little bearing on how good he will be going forward.

As for Mitchell/Booker/SGA - they are all different players.

Booker, from what I remember was better than Jalen Green by the time he was Green's age. You can always find some qualifier like Green's team won more games etc. Booker was ultimately a better 21 year old basketball player than Green was. Does that mean Green will never be as good as Booker? No - of course not - just the projections are different.

Same thing with Alexander - who was a lower volume but more efficient player than Green - Alexander took at huge leap at 23, maybe Green will too.

If you believe that Green will be as good as those guys (or better), you may be right. For a month last year, Green played like a top 5 player in the NBA.... but career wise, so far he hasn't been as good.

I am not that concerned about comparisons - because it is pretty obvious to me what Green already does well and what he needs to improve at, and what the negative and positive outcomes are if he does/doesn't improve. If he improves his shooting efficiency and defense - he is a an all star to elite star... if he doesn't, then he is going to have a career like DeAngelo Russell.

"What if" scenarios mean little to me as well - because I already believe that Green deserves a shot to be more consistent this season. If his efficiency doesn't improve, then they likely move on. If it does improve, then he will be the SG and main scorer for the Rockets going forward.

 

Oh so Jalen isn't that type lf player who needs a consistent dose of on ball reps where a disjointed situation of switching roles from on ball to off ball effected his efficiency?

Jalen the season prior averaged 22 ppg on 54% ts on worse talent surrounding him.


If Booker from season two to three had to change roles, had a coaching staff that would pull him if he didn't play Ime level competent defense, had a veteran high usage competent floor general signed to his team, you think he'd average that?

Jalen Green given the same situation from year to year three where he could take entire quarters off trying on defense and was allowed his offensive system like the first two years would more than likely build upon that in volume and efficiency. But the team as a whole would suffer.

There is no magical reason why his catch and shoot numbers for example from year two to year three dipped so large. It was a change of role and a change of expectations on effort on defense.

He changed roles and had to live a **** on defense. That is nearly twice as much energy expenditure per game he had to get used to

Devin Booker given the similar situation from year two to year three would probably experience he same thing.

 

Reed will keep playing unless I get told otherwise. I think Cam is done. — Garrett Jackson on 790

 

We've been putting up with this dumb **** for 3 years now, the delusional fanbois saying both that Jalen Green is already amazing (4000 points!!!) and making excuses for why he sucks AND making excuses for why the superior performance of others doesn't count.

Honestly while Jalen's awful performance has been hard to watch, it's his fans that are truly insufferable and have me more than ready to end Linsanity 2.0 if only to get rid of his fans.

 

I looked at SGA, Booker, and Mitchell's first three years. I don't think Green is in their class, he is a tier (or two) below them. SGA is a superstar and Booker and Mitchell are both stars (I still think Booker is overrated).

Green has shown almost the exact same stats for three years now. I don't understand why some people think there will be a big improvement.

The argument that he creates his own offense doesn't hold water if he does so poorly, inefficiently, and if it is a detriment to winning.

If Jalen could shoot 36% threes for a season he'd be great. Almost all of my concerns with him would be alleviated. He'd get to the basket and score more (they'd respect his shot) and he'd probably get his FT rate back up (he was great at this his second year and it dropped last year). 36% isn't even league average, I don't think I'm asking for much here.

I would also be fine with 36% threes if he reduced from 7.4 attempts to 5 or 5.5 attempts to achieve this goal. That would show he is having better shot selection. The only problem with that might be that we need a SG that can hit 36% on 7 or 7.5 attempts a game. I don't know.

 

Okay so explain how a player with the highest usage on a team with bad personal individual scoring efficiency has the second best on/off impact on team offensive efficiency only behind FVV on the roster?

https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/team/11/onoff#tab-team_efficiency


It can't be a fluke because a player with his usage rate the impact on offense either negative or positive is going to be a large part due to their play due to the high usage.

 

"If he's bad, how come I can cherry pick a stat?"

Strong.

 

It is understanding that almost all Rocket talk will have some Jalen reference. He is lynchpin of this year. If he is good Jalen, we will be heard in the playoffs. If he is bad Jalen, we are going to struggle to find a replacement. Cam is our future SF, but he is a couple of years away. Amen and Sheppard will be a fine backcourt next year or two. This year really does revolve around Jalen. We can pray that Phoenix completely implodes and we can land Booker for the stretch run, if Jalen doesn’t pan out. Otherwise, we will be fighting for the play-in.

 

Yeah okay but this is supposed to be the thread about the Rockets/Pistons Summer League game. How would you guys like it if I showed up in every single thread and made it about Josh Christopher? Because I can do that.

 

I'm not a subscriber so I can't access this page.

 

You don't?

 

I don’t like it either. I was just saying I understand why. Talk to BTG, Dobbizle, and fchowd if you want it to change. They can’t seem to say a word on the forum without bringing up Jalen. Hero worship or utter hatred has taken over the Rockets portion of this site. Can’t wait for the Texans to get going and post all-star break Astros talk so, at least, we have something else to concentrate on.

 

Sorry, I contributed to this Jalen talk.

Remember, Summer League performance doesn't mean much to the real NBA.

Nate: I thought he had a place on the team before this summer league and now I'm not sure. I think players at his level really have to go out and try to score as much as possible to try to get a contract somewhere. He's worth a 2-way or whatever, probably not a spot on the roster at present.

Robinson: He needs to be signed to something. He's an NBA player, if an end of the bench one.

Dante: Didn't really show me much. I'd take Robinson over him and put D on the g league.

AJ Griffin: Not good. Hopefully salary filler.

Cam: He played great. The last game doesn't mean much, he and everyone were gassed. All the talk about him being selfish and immature I think is hugely overblown. On the actual Rockets team he will play how coach tells him to play and he'll be great. Sit him the rest of the SL, there's no need to play him.

Hinton: He's looked bad.He had some promise this past year but isn't showing it yet.

Samuels: I've always kind of liked him but he's probably too small and not good enough for the L. Try to keep him on RGV.

Reed: He's gassed and tried to do more than he will have to do on a real team. I'm not concerned about last game. BUT, he has not played against NBA caliber defenders yet. I don't know how he will do when bringing the ball up and trying to run an offense against NBA players. He looked great against summer league, but again that's not the L. And I'm a little bothered that he doesn't ever just pop a three over his defender. I'm assuming he did this in college but I haven't seen him try once in the summer games. That makes me worried that he knows the defense has longer arms and thinks they may block his shot. Fred, Cam, and others will dribble up and let a three fly (and often make it). If Reed can do that then it will really help our offense.

More Reed (he's the big draft pick): I still question if if he can be a starting PG. I see him more as a short combo guard who shares PG duties with someone else (Amen?). Having real players around him will help with some of his passes, they'll be able to score when he makes a good pass. But the inverse is true, better defenders will sniff those out. It kept looking to me like he needed players to pick defenders for him when he tried to drive the lane or sometimes cross half court. I know this is a regular tactic but it almost seemed like he needed this to get by his man every time. Except that play on Knecht.

More: It's also possible the coach told him to shoot less and pass more as this is SL games. That might explain why he's not shooting as much. And he isn't getting ANY kick outs from players who have been penetrating. I'm excited to see him play with players who can get him good looks.

More: Will Reed wilt against players that are physically superior to him? Can he score on bigger guards? Can he defend big and long players? His quick hands and stocks look like he has potential, but again these are SL players. We'll have to see.

Keep playing Reed in the SL. He needs a good game after this last one. And I want to see the three pointers return.

 

At least send him to an ophthalmologist first...

 

The thing that keeps having me waiver back and forth on Jalen is when you drop the comparison down from MVP candidate All-NBAer like SGA/Booker/Mitchell to multi-time all-star like Zach LaVine / Bradley Beal, the comparison for the first 3/4 years looks a lot more favorable. Ignore the fact that both of these guys are albatrosses right now on their third max contracts, both of them were extremely positive assets on their second contracts (which is what we should be worried about), and they both broke out in massive ways only the season after signing, while having lots of ups and downs due to injury and inconsistency while on their rookie deals. Losing a LaVine/Beal-level talent for no compensation in return really feels terrible. Of course, there are many more stories of players who have been as inconsistent as Jalen and never got it together at all, and became dead weight salaries.

 

Reed gonna Wilt in the NBA for sure..


WILT CHAMBERLAIN!

 

I was hoping summer league would give us something else to focus on. But no, no, no. The Jalen narratives continue unabated. And you know what? The worst is still to come. Wait till Jalen actually starts playing in games. Every game night will be a dissection of whether he has turned the corner, or perhaps which corner he has turned. Every stat line will be cherry picked by the contending camps to bolster their position.

 

Didn't Reed dribble the ball off his knee twice with his right hand? If his handles are shaky, he can't do much else apart from catch and shoot off the bench.

 

This will be his role at least for this year. He will hopefully be an improved version of Holiday
.

 

Yeah, it's hard to expect more than that, unless he really gets better in practice by October.