ClutchFans Game Thread: Pistons @ Rockets - Vegas Summer League 7/15/2024

I think the shooting is by far the most important thing for him. I'll be the first to say that if he can be 80% of what he was during those 8 games in April, he's a star for sure.

Well, 80% of 47.7...what he shot from 3 over those 8 games is 38.2 (rounded) which is just a bit above average for the SG position.

When his 3 is a legitimate threat, everything else opens up for him. When he can't hit the 3, he doesn't belong on the court.

He can keep painting his nails, knocking up old ladies, and humping his teammates so long as he learns how to shoot the 3. It'll make everything else be completely ignored.

 

Just to be clear, I want Green to be more consistently efficient as the Rockets are an absolutely dominating team when he is. I hope he earns a max contract with the Rockets.

 

Curious. Who do you think the poster is.

 

I don't have an issue with Green or other people/players have different lifestyles or hobbies or interests....and I certainly don't think it is a character flaw.

He could play basketball 12 hours a day and I would feel the same. His performance in his career thus far has been very uneven - he has had periods of being dominant and other periods of not playing focused or as intense. Some of that is likely because of his age and can improve.

 

It's like he was asked to create his own offense against NBA defenses at the ages of 19-22 where only very rare lottery picks like Luka or Lebron immediately excell with efficiency and winning impact....

His performance is uneven as a 19-22 year old asked to create his own offense against NBA defenses?

That's why you question his focus? That seems rather superficial and a very low bar for someone to make human character judgements which quite frankly from your posting history I thought you were above.

Jalen's crime so far is he isn't a Luka, Wemby type talent and is more of Booker, SGA, Mitchell level talent and a 19-22 year old Booker or Mitchel or SGA like talent is going to look like what Green did on the Rockets at ages 19-22


Uneven performances but still the youngest player in franchise history to reach 4000 pts with second place being nearly 2 years older when they reached that milestone(Harden)

 

Was he asked to be a selfish low efficiency chucker, or is that simply what he's chosen to do because that's all he's capable of doing?

 

I came to a similar conclusion about Cam. I like him and he's young, but he's fairly one dimensional as a player right now - you get 3s and rim attacks on offense and he might lock in defensively if ISOed....but I think one of the things you saw a lot in summer league last year that we haven't seen from Cam this year in SL is him playing the facilitator.

Clearly he is the most talented guy out there but in order for him to be a better NBA player, he has to understand when he is forcing it and when he can find better shots for his team - something Jalen has been working on for a few years now and has improved on quite a bit. Right now Cam's talent allows him to finish plays that otherwise are probably not good shots. Cam has promise and I expect big things but today I don't feel good about the line of thinking that we don't need Jalen Green on the roster because Cam is going to be better. Jalen is the more complete player right now with the HUGE caveat that he needs to improve his efficiency (but understand that he has real gravity on the court with defenses despite that).

 

I am assuming this is a rhetorical sentence

 

So is your problem with him about his game or his personal life? Or both?

 

I think you are probably overreacting to Nook's comments there. The focus issues are real on the court. I didn't necessarily think he was implying anything off the court which I agree is a common refrain from the less evolved posters here who think nail color, who you have a baby with, or how dumb kids play rough with each other, directly reflect some fatal character flaw.

On the court - Jalen has been inconsistent with when he plays defense, how aggressive he is offensively, etc. I think he improved under Udoka's coaching but there were defintely games last year where you wondered where the guy who was tearing through defenses in one game went in the very next game - things that are effort based, that are engagement based. All that exists despite what you mentioned that the results are uneven because NBA defenses are very good and Jalen has largely been the primary creator and chief point of emphasis for those defenses for many years now.

 

Only his game, that's what I was trying to highlight. Everything else is just people piling on due to the poor performance rather than things that actually matter.

I don't personally like players who are more interested in side BS than they are their career, but so long as the results are there, it doesn't bother me. However, I feel like those types don't last very long because they tend to start prioritizing their side BS more and more over time and eventually crash out of whatever league they are in.

It's like the difference between Andre Agassi and Pete Sampras, one was MUCH more naturally talented....but he low key hated tennis, the other was less naturally talented but MUCH more driven.

 

non-backed out man-crush for Jaleny in this board is beyond understanding or logic. binary fans will never understand. it is like he is kept around only for his nonbinary skills.

 

Cam's 1-15 last night is very similar to Jalen's history as a player. selfish, single-game stephen marburies of today.

 

Speak English, not incel.

 

....just saying it for posterity's sake but to round out some of the other players on the SL roster:

Nate Williams has looked pretty awful this summer league. Every time he gets it, he puts his head down and tries to make something happen so he is playing aggressively, but it often results in really bad shots, decisions to pass that are WAY too late and he puts himself in spots where he gums up the whole offense because he has managed to belly flop into the lane. I feel like it's time to move on from him.

I thought Jermaine Samuels has looked okay in limited minutes - he seems like a more refined version of the guy who has been around the organization for a minute now. I don't know if he is necessarily a rotational player yet, but he has gotten better to his credit and could be a rotational player somewhere...just not sure if it's here.

Dante - seems very old school and very raw. The size and defensive possibilities are there, but he is definitely a long term project - not sure the point of him unless he is the Boban memorial "last guy off the bench" - aka, the big body you park at the rim defensively if there is a tip scenario in a 2pt game.

Orlando Robinson has looked very good - I wasn't expecting much but he seems like a very respectable big with a wide range of skills - maybe even a backup rotational guy. I wouldn't necessarily do it today, but I could see a world where we trade one of Adams or Landale and Robinson is the 3rd string big off the bench making minimum salary. I saw some nice reads, some strong work on the boards, some good passes, some 3pt form - he impressed me the most.

Adrian Griffin - call me underwhelmed. I see the talent but his shot selection seems lacking. He has shooting skills but he too often passes up a decent spot up attempt for some over dribbling that ends up with him kicking it out to reset the offense. To his credit he hasn't turned the ball over a ton, but the offense definitely looks worse when the ball is in his hands. The defense hasn't been as bad as I was expecting but it also isn't good enough for a rotational spot in the NBA. I think he was a good "buy low" candidate - let's see how he progresses playing with the rest of the guys but so far the results indicate - he probably isn't cracking our rotation this year. I know Summer League is about testing your skill sets, but Griffin needs to learn to be a good spot up shooter to give him a role to stick in the league for now because his overall game isn't good enough for any other role.

 

The accolades about youngest in franchise history honestly don't mean much to me because scoring is at a higher level than in the past, players are emerging younger and Green was on a terrible team where he was allowed to shoot as often as he wants. To me the context of those accomplishments is important.

Green has now been in the league for three years now and he has been up and down quite a bit each season, which has hindered his overall performance. As for his need to improve his focus, there are times where it is very clear that he is not as focused as others. He isn't the first or only young player to have that issue - others did as well, including Luka FWIW.

The problem for Green is that if he wants to be a #1 or #2 option long term in the NBA, which he has shown he is more than capable of being at his best, he will have to be more consistent offensively shooting the ball and he will have to get better defensively. I think that the only thing he has to improve "now" is his efficiency.

As for saying he lacks focus - I think you are taking that criticism harsher than I intend it. I can give a list of things that Sengun needs to do better (be assertive) and Smith needs to do better (stop pouting).

Being an NBA star is hard, it takes work and consistency and good health - and a lot things. I don't think because Green hasn't become a star (yet?), means that he doesn't work hard or lacks desire or pride.

 

Why is the accomplishment of Green being the youngest to 4000 pts complete ereased because of context?

Yes the modern nba post 2000 is a one and done league for high talent lottery picks where mostly 19 year olds on bad teams start getting high usage. This has been a thing for more than a decade now.


Obviously there is context that diminishes how impressive his feets are but to complete erase them is absurd.


I don't see how different any talent of the level of Green like a Mitchell or Booker or SGA would do any differently at ages 19-22 under the Silas Rockets


Booker in his third year for example looked like he made a leap right? 23 ppg on 55% ts? Blows Green out the water with his measily 20 ppg on 54% ts right? Except Booker did that on a 22 win team and Green did it on a 41 win team.

Green in his second year averaged 22 on 54% ts. Now is it that hard to believe of the same exact structure and offensive system was in place for Green from year two to year three where he wasn't asked to try on defense like he was under Ime where he was allowed to dominate the ball much more and Silas let him "cook" he wouldn't be around that Booker third year average but the Rockets would be around the mid 20s in win totals rather than 41 wins?

 

Because in context, it's an indictment, not an accomplishment. A selfish, inefficient scrub chucking his way to 4000 points to the detriment of his team is not a good thing....it's a reason not to extend his contract.

I mean, sure, it helped the Rockets tank, but other than that, it's been really bad for the team.

 

Wait, did this turn into a Jalen Green thread? I just came here to talk more about how awful the whole Summer League roster was yesterday, Cam especially.

 

Booker in his third year averaged 24.9ppg on 56.1 TS% and hitting 38.3% from deep. Jalen averaged 19.6ppg on 54.1 TS% and 33.2% from deep. Booker's season was better and he had improved year over year at that point. Jalen was on a 41 win team because we added $80M in veteran free agents and have other young prospects that made an impact in Sengun, Jabari, Amen, and Cam.

That Booker could be that efficient with that terrible a roster was a testament his talent, not a detraction.