If you squint hard enough you can dismiss any player you already don't like. Just ignore all the games he played well against good teams.
Whose ignoring it? We played OKC 4 times last year. You are harping on 1 game where he had 37 points where they missed their best player. In the games we played the Thunder with SGA how did Jalen do? He had 15 one game, 11 the other, and 16 in one. He shot horribly from the field. He had more turnovers than assists. So why would I look at 1 game at the end of the season over the 4 game sample size? The fact of the matter is more often than not, he sucks against good teams.
Oh really? Can you please demonstrate this because I'm pretty sure it's total horse sh*t that has been debunked here several times. Everyone is better against worse teams, so you're claiming Jalen is more prone to this. Can't wait to see the data you've seen.
Depends on what your definition of him playing well is. He only shot better than 50% from the field 21 times all of last season, 6 of those games were against good teams depending on what you think about the Lakers. Personally I don't think they are true contenders. Kings also not true contenders. So I should just rephrase my statement. Maybe he doesn't suck against good teams maybe he just always sucks for 75% of the season. And the 25% of the time he's good is just a random. I personally have more faith in Jabari, Amen, Cam and even Tari to have more potential that Jalen. If any of them got his usage it would be a much different story. Of all of our players Amen has the highest upside.
I’m not sure why we allow every thread to devolve into this. Green has been inefficient. He has certainly shown flashes. His defense, passing, mid-range and finishing at the rim all improved this season. None of that will really matter if he remains not efficient enough, especially from 3. I just think we could have less of the same repetitive back and forth. Let’s allow a player that is still very young a second year under a competent coach.
Catching up through the thread but did someone really say Jalen’s ceiling was Corey Brewer?? Good lord I’m not Jalen’s biggest fan but that’s a bit harshlol
so not just good teams, but contenders? I'd love to see some comparables who just dominate against contenders consistently. Last i can ever recalling never having a bad game was prime Harden. The best in the world, have bad games against Contenders. This is a terrible point of contention.
Thanks for acknowledging you're just making random things up. Anthony Edwards "only" did it 29 times so your definition of playing well is whack. It's clear Green didn't play well for a lot of the season, no one is debating that. Your analysis is shallow and not well thought out though.
Because what this thread is about, allowing players to grow and mature and believing within our team's roster cant be done with a ton of posters who "KNOW" that Jalen is a failure. So they need to let that be known that he cant and wont and isnt part of internal growth to be expected. So then it devolves into the same back and forth ad nauseum
But Anthony Edwards contributes outside of scoring. Guy played elite defense on other teams best player. Jalen on the other hand does none of that. Which is why I'm only looking at his shooting percentage. Just stop comparing him to Ant. if Jalen played Amen Thompson level defense I wouldn't even care if he scored 5 points a game on 10% shooting. I'd still think he'd have a better chance of becoming a star than the guy we are seeing today.
I don't need him to dominate. I just need him to not be a negative the majority of the time. He literally puts up absolute duds. Like 15 points on 33% shooting with 4 turnovers...
I'm not interested in the new goal posts. You defined playing well as shooting 50% from the field. Edwards did it 29 times and Jalen 21 times, so by your own random metric, Jalen is not that far off from Edwards. So that metric is whack. The idea that it has something to do with good vs bad teams is whack too. You don't have to convince me Edwards had a way better season than Jalen. You should just try to figure out why you need to go out of your way to make Green look worse than he actually was when he was actually pretty bad and there's real data to show it.
My statement if you go back and read was about his hot streak to end the year. I'm not sure how I'm making him look worse than he is. he got hot when the majority of the teams we played were very bad teams and we got within 1 game of the play in. Then he went out and laid 4 eggs in a row against playoff teams and we were officially eliminated.
That's not the statement I responded to. The statement I responded to was the made up one: he plays better against bad teams than good in a way that's unusual. I asked for the data. You withdrew your statement and said he's just bad 75% of the time. Then you defined "playing well" and that definition was whack too. You're the only one confused about why it was hard for Green to play well against playoff teams when we're missing Sengun, Tari and at times Whitmore. We're not good enough to beat those teams. Even a 22 year old future star would not be good enough to carry a team that bad against teams that good. We were a bottom 5 offense that lost its best scorer and second best passer. It was not an achievable target for him to lead us to what you're expecting - which is essentially to make you happy he'd have to lead us to like 15 wins in 18 games with a depleted squad. That's an absurd expectation even if it was against 18 easy teams. What you're totally misunderstanding is that it was a miracle he brought us close to playoff contention with that squad - leading us to 11 wins half of which we had no business winning and we would never have won without him. Most of this board had given up on playins when Sengun went down. You are whining about losing 4 games we weren't favored in and ignoring that he had just led us to the most unlikely longest winning streak in the NBA (matched only by eventual champions Boston Celtics who also had an 11-game winning streak). All the teams in the NBA get soft parts in their schedule. Only two teams won 11 games in a row. Explain it to yourself.
$100 says you can find lots of GMs touting their “organic” plans or their young “core” right before they trade half of it away. (But I hope Stone sticks with it, unless the offer is amazing. This is a well-balanced group with a lot of upside.)
This is where we will always disagree. You said half of these games we had no business winning. Very strange let's breakdown our 11 game win streak. Game 1 - Portland - They started Dalano Banton, Simons, Kris Murray, Duop Reath, Toumani Camara? Who are these guys? You really think we had no business winning this game? Game 2- Sacramento - I could make an argument that Jalen was the worst player that got minutes this game. He was hardly the reason we won as he was 6/15 for 19 points.. Game 3 - Spurs - Did you really think we were gonna lose this one also? They were also actively tanking. Also Jalen was 5/16 for 16 points and 3 turnovers. Game 4 - Washington. Did you really think we were losing this one? Maybe worst team in the league. Game 5- Cleveland - No problem giving Jalen credit for this game. I thought it was gonna be a loss and break our win streak. He played well and we got a surprising victory. Game 6 - Washington again- Did you really think we were losing this? Also in this game Washington benched a lot of their starters. No Tyus Jones, no Kuzma etc. Game 7 - Chicago - Not a great team. Also missing Lavine. Is this one you thought we were losing? Game 8 - Utah - Lauri and Clarkson both didn't play. You really thought we were losing this one? They started Sexton, George, Hednricks, Juzang, collins.... Game 9 - Portland again - Oh and Simons didn't even play this time. Look at this roster.... Game 10 - OKC - Somewhat surprising but honestly when SGA was ruled out I thought we could win. They don't have the offense to win without him. Game 11- Utah again - Still missing Clarkson and Lauri. Not really a surprise. So when you say you thought we should have lost half these games, which ones were they? Cleveland. maybe OKC. Lastly you are totally missing my point. I didn't expect Jalen to lead us to victory against any of those four teams. If he woulda played well and we were competitive that would be totally different story. The problem is that if you look at the five game losing streak Jalen was just so bad we weren't even competitive. These shooting splits and turnovers were out of control. He shot us out of those games because if he isn't scoring he does nothing to set up teammates on offense and he does nothing on the defensive end to help out. Game 1 Dal - 5/15 12 points 2 turnovers -22 in the game. Game 2 Minnesota - 10/22 26 points 5 turnovers -1 in the game. Game 3 Golden State - 4/12 13 points 4 turnovers -16 in the game. Game 4 - Miami -6/18 21 points 3 turnovers -11 in the game Game 5 Dallas - 6/15 21 points 5 turnovers - 12 in the game
I really think you're underselling Senguns high end potential. If we look at last season, Sengun has just as many superstar performances as Jalen. Look at the best 5 games from each player, or the best 10, or best 15, and they're really close. You could easily argue Sengun's are better, but either way, they are very close. The only reason Sengun has less potential as you're presenting it is because his role in the first two seasons was so diminished.
You're going around in circles and it's plain to see for everyone. Bottom line: you're saying we should have won 15 of 18 games against allegedly easy teams. We're a .500 team missing its top scorer and second best passer. Bad teams win 20-35 games - they are beating better teams than themselves. Prior to the 11 game streak we are the 10th/11th seed. We lose Tari - our highest impact player - some time back. We lose Sengun. We partially lose Whitmore and get him back rusty. You're being totally insincere if you are saying we SHOULD win more than half our games against easy teams in that situation. A lineup of Jabari, Amen, Brooks, Jalen and FVV is not good enough to win more than half its games against teams you so widely regard as easy teams. One more time and once and for all: all the teams in the NBA get soft months. Only two teams won 11 straight games. EXPLAIN IT TO YOURSELF. Thanks for the convo. I'm happy to leave it where it is and for people to judge your/my arguments here.
