(Kelly Iko) Pelicans offering Ingram for Sengun

I fixed it for you

 

I thought it was more like 'I am tired of carrying this team, you guys need to show up more'. And he is not wrong, his second and 3rd guys have been inconsistent and underwhelming overall.

 

Houston Rockets Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -10.6 ppg, -2.7 rpg, and +2.0 apg.
Incoming Players
Brandon Ingram
26 year old, 6-8, 190 lb SF from Duke
20.8 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 5.7 apg in 32.9 minutes in 2023-2024
Dyson Daniels
21 year old, 6-7, 199 lb GF from NBA G League Ignite
5.8 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 2.7 apg in 22.3 minutes in 2023-2024
Outgoing Players
Dillon Brooks
28 year old, 6-6, 225 lb F from Oregon
12.7 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 1.7 apg in 30.9 minutes in 2023-2024
Jalen Green
22 year old, 6-4, 186 lb SG from NBA G League Ignite
19.6 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 3.5 apg in 31.7 minutes in 2023-2024
Jock Landale
28 year old, 6-11, 255 lb C from Saint Mary's
4.9 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 1.2 apg in 13.6 minutes in 2023-

 

I would not trade Sengun for Ingram at all, but am totally confused by your assessment of Ingram's game. The comparisons to Westbrook and Ellis are especially off and not just because they play different positions, but because he doesn't have any of their most glaring weaknesses. Westbrook and Ellis couldn't shoot while Ingram can. Ingram's career average from 3 is higher than either player's career high. His overall efficiency is also much higher, he is above average league efficiency whereas they were well below. Westbrook and Ellis were also really bad defenders while Ingram is not. When you're talking about high volume Ingram isn't even particularly high, Westbrook and Ellis FG attempts per game were well into the 20s while Ingram actually dialed it back this year to accommodate Zion's return.

As a Pelican (five seasons) Ingram's averaged 23.1 points on 17.5 FGA, 47.2% shooting from the field, 37.2 3P%, and 57.7 TS%. Those are very solid numbers. He is most similar to Pascal Siakam on volume, percentages, and assist numbers. Siakam was able to win a championship as a third option, which is probably the role Ingram would need to take on a contending team. I wouldn't trade for Ingram because he's an often injured, lower level all-star that will command a large salary. I just don't think he's the low efficiency chucker you think he is.

 

This thing you have against Sengun is.....odd?

 

If this is true it would be evidence of unprofessional management. The job of a GM is to maintain working relationships and continue to negotiate will all 29 other customers/GM’s. He shouldn’t hang up the phone on anyone about anything. All trade proposals are the starting point in a potential opportunity for both sides to pursue. Of course you professionally say no to ridiculous offers, but never without a counter or some offer to discover their needs a bit more to see about alternative offers.

So if Stone hung up the phone that would be GM malpractice no matter how ridiculous an offer it is. And I see no benefit of either side here to leak out that this happened.

 

I’d hate to see Sengun get traded, but if the Rockets think Clingan or another defensive center is their guy; well it’s their jobs that depend on all of these projections. With his limited shot blocking, and practically no 3 point shot, Sengun is not in the molding of current NBA centers.

I really respect what Sengun has accomplished, but I can see his glass ceiling falling well short of a championship, but a few good playoff wins.

I hope I’m wrong, because I admire the heart and determination.

 

You misunderstood my post, I don't think he has a similar game to Westbrook or Ellis. I was just naming players that I put in the category of "doesn't belong on a championship team". I wasn't trying to say that they play the same. There are a lot of players in the league that I think are good, or even really good, but just don't fit on a championship team. They come in all shapes and sizes, and I put them in this category for a variety of different reasons.

 

Of course not. However with Stone’s history of leaking with an obvious agenda (see Oladipo, EG, etc), it’s not out of the realm of possibilities for them to be using Sengun’s name here at least as bait to get teams and agents to engage the Rockets in a trade for a star… a star they obviously value more than Ingram.

 

Ingram + Daniels + 21 for Brooks + Landale + Tate + 3 would definitely spark my interest as Daniels + Amen + Cam + Tari + Adams / Jalen Smith makes for one of the best young benches in the NBA IMHO. Plus if Ware fell to 21 = home run.

 

Is Ingram useful yes? Basketball aside, his contract is the deal breaker. If a team trades for him; likelihood is the team is willing to meet the salary number his agent had in mind. Like Pacers about to extend Siakim, which Toronto wasn't willing.

Few months back, it sounded like Ingram's camp was looking at the $40m / $50m range. Even with the cap going up; that's still a lot of flexibility gone. You can say his camp is delusional, but that's also why the Pels are also aggressively shopping him. And... Sengun or Jalen extension would likely be cheaper.


On the Marcus Smart thing, while I understand lot of people's opinions, I think folks are selling him a bit short. For me, it's more of a soft NO than the 'hell naw'. Marcus can improve this team and his contract is not egregious. And yes, under Ime, Ime should be able to convince Marcus to come off the bench. Marcus was a dpoy not that long ago. Smart's offense isn't great, but teams don't sag off of him; like they do on the Thompson twins. I also wouldn't trade Sengun for Smart, but if #3 pick + salary matching, I would consider the offers.

 

News flash: the rockets price setting Sengun at this level is not a sign that they are trying to dump him or offend you who think he’s the next Hakeem.

IMO this is a pretty high price to set and also does the job of cooling the market of offers that aren’t high end. Regardless of how you feel about Ingram, he would be someone I would think has a decent price tag. A team that places this kind of price tag on a young player also won’t hesitate to also consider a near max extension even if they are open to shopping for the right star package.

That being said this also is the same GM who “leaked” that they had multiple offers for first round picks for Oladipo and then ended up settling for pick and salary swap. So not really the greatest track record for accurately leaking for leverage.

 

This is yet another example of the organization giving y'all a clue that they are trying to trade Sengun because he doesn't fit with what the coach wants. You all have had many clues before. You just chose to ignore them.
Clue #1: The rumor about Ime not being a Sengun fan.
#2 : Rockets going after Lopez before the season started.
#3 : Rockets make deal to get Steven Adams.
And now
#4 : NO wanting to trade Ingram for Sengun.

Wake up guys. No one has said that Sengun is not a good player. As a matter of fact he is a very good 18-10 player but he cannot lead this team 2 blocks down the street. It is best to trade him while he is hot. Not that NO garbage though. To someplace like Portland where we could jack them for both of their first round picks. Now trade 7 and 14 to Atlanta for #1. Then draft Sarr at 1 and (gulp) Sheppard at #3.

 

If BI moved the needle THAT much, the Pels would be looking at trading Zion instead (always a huge injury risk).

 

Yes we are trying to trade the guy that we featured as the centerpiece all season long until he got hurt. Makes total sense.

 

I'm not saying the Rockets are right or wrong here. However I wouldn't classify what seems like an obvious agenda as "trying to trade." I see the writing on the wall on two items:

-that they want to sign or trade for a big name star for various reasons
-that there are people in the Rockets org (FO, and/or coaching staff) who see a major liability in Sengun long term

So there's reason to hypothesize that conversations internally lead them to do things that take care of addressing their needs, and what they want to pursue in maybe both getting a star player, and shoring up the liabilities they see with Sengun as the starting 5.

I personally think the Rockets are stupid is they get so infatuated with having a "star" that they do something that impacts the team long term. I'd like for them to just keep on progressing along at the pace that suits the talent they have. I also don't think there is a superstar out there that is going to push this team into contention. Zion and Embiid aren't worth gambling on like I assume the front office believes they are. Because that's really the best you are going to get in this market.

I also do not agree that Sengun cannot improve on his major liability on the defensive end. I think alot about Luis Scola when I see Sengun on D because of the similar deficiencies, but Scola did work really hard so it helped over time. So even if Sengun isn't physically capable defensively, I think over time he's going to improve because he has such a high BBIQ.

So no I don't really agree with the Rockets thinking here as an outsider fan... BUT I do see pretty clearly what they seem to believe, and what their goals are. The fact is... yeah... it sure as hell looks like for the right price to further their pursuit of a "star" player, yeah... Sengun could definitely be traded soon.

 

I think it is as simple as NO asked and we declined. I don’t think we trade Al unless it’s for some crazy deal.

 

I think it's us asking about Ingram, and NO initially saying not without Sengun on the table.

 

I hope so. I actually like BI a good bit. I think that if we could extend him at 40 million a year for a few seasons, that number is not quite as terrible when you factor in the cap escalations over the next few years.

Ingram is a good shooter and works well in the mid range areas and I think that this compliments Sengun well. Ingram also a good passer. The issue becomes subbing in Ingram for Brooks leaves us without a go to guy in the starting lineup to guard the other teams #1 on the perimeter. Although I guess Jabari could do this, depending on the matchup and to be honest, there’s probably not a huge difference between Ingram and Brooks defensively on the perimeter. Obviously, Brooks is way better defending on the interior.

 

I picture Stone telling Iko the Pelicans are offering Ingram for Sengun like this.