The data is the data, but yeah you point out some caveats, and I'd also add that while this tracks *all* the combine data....not all prospects actually participate in the combine. This year is a bit of an anomaly because I believe the NBA is basically forcing prospects to participate (unless injured), but prior to this, most top prospects wouldn't really do much. Maybe offer a measurement (if it was clearly good), but that's about it. So if the idea is to compare Reed to previous lottery picks in agility drills....good luck. There's also the caveat that some prospects care a lot of about a drill while others...less so (potentially). Etc Etc Etc. Then we can get into how much does this data match the eye test, and is it possible that a player with a slower agility time does better than a player with a faster agility time (due to faster processing, better angles, better technique, etc). Ultimately you can definitely make some conclusions from this data, but I also don't want people to overreact to them either. For Reed specifically, I look at these numbers and just generally conclude that he's probably around average to above average with his raw agility. Maybe better, but I'll be a bit conservative. Now to your larger point with what Hollinger said, I think I agree with Hollinger, though I'm not sure exactly how big of a deal it is. I do see Reed occasionally getting beat by guards who will not be in the NBA. My problem is I don't know if that's due entirely to poor lateral quickness, poor technique, or a combination of the two (and/or other considerations). My optimistic side says it might just be poor technique/processing from Reed at times. Some of the blow-bys, he's just in a bad position and slow to react when a player has clearly started to accelerate in one direction. There are other times when he is hounding a quick-ish guard, and they can't get around him. There is also merit to the argument that Reed occasionally just gets lazy and wants to gamble, which I don't think is necessarily a bad things depending on the opponent/scheme (FYI Amen did this a LOT too in OTE). Ultimately, I have questions here, and I wouldn't really have a good answer about how well he can defend on-ball until he actually does it in the NBA. I guess the Rockets can find out by working him out in some drills, but I won't have access to that. Even then, I don't know if there are ways to alleviate some problems by taking better angles, processing information better, etc.
It has already been said, but that nbadraft.net report is not something I value strongly. That site in general has kinda gone downhill IMO, though I will occasionally reference it. I usually stick to Vecenie, Hollinger, etc with prospect scouting. Do you agree with the things they've said? I don't recall them bringing up the inconsistencies. The foot speed thing is a legit concern I think, although I discussed my thoughts about it in my last post. I do think with HOU, he could likely be protected from it some (if it is an issue). It may just turn out that he's a more athletic version than FVV though, in which case it isn't a problem at all. So...*shrug* Not sure what other questions you have, but if you direct them my way, I can give my thoughts (having wasted my free time recently consuming tons of draft related content). Depends on what happens to Holiday and/or any summer moves. I think if Holiday leaves, that potentially opens up 15-20 MPG that he could play. But even then, it might be tough to take those minutes. Personally, I think he'll probably have a plan like Cam (and sorta Amen). If they want to work on his PG skills, they can just throw him in the G League for a chunk of the year. Force him to play without picking up his dribble. Play more solid defense with better technique. Etc. At the halfway mark or so, can re-evaluate and see if he can earn minutes with the main roster. I'm optimistic that he can get minutes by then (especially if injuries happen), but I don't think he'll be getting 30+ MPG from day 1. Might have to wait until Year 2 to get solid consistent minutes. FWIW, I like this approach and wished it could have been done with Jalen, Jabari, etc.
There is a big difference between one of the worst teams in the league drafting high vs a .500 team drafting high. Rookies drafted by the really bad teams or more than likely going to be thrown to the wolves and get a ton of playing time(see Jalen and Jabari). Better teams will not have as much playing times for rookies at the start except rare occasions where the rookie is better than someone in the rotation from the start. If Jalen starts off playing like **** again and Reed (or whoever they draft) is doing well in practice, then they would get more minutes early.
Yep. I understand why things worked out the way they did, but I definitely prefer this slow grooming approach (where guys earn minutes). The John Wall thing was bad for multiple reasons, but yeah I would have preferred it if he stayed and started, forcing KPJ and/or Jalen to earn minutes. Guess that would have hurt the tank though. I know it is quite controversial to claim that things might not have been ideal under the Silas era.
Data is data. Hes above average because he tested above average, for the entire history of the combine. Scouting is more iffy or subjective than testing. People see through their own lenses and stereotypes. Are there moments Reed looks behind? Absolutely. Is it because of lateral quickness or agility? Tape and testing say no. More likely it’s gambling, mistakes, baiting or ball watching. All things coaching can fix. But in no way is he physically incapable, outside of not having a super long wingspan.
Yeah but sending a #3 pick to the G-league won't go over well for Sheppard. You expect those players to come in and play. Imo, the Rockets are not the team for Reed. He is best suited for the Spurs where he has a better chance of getting those minutes.
Cam is better than any of these prospects, and he was fine going to the G League. Amen actually had a stint there too (though yes there were other reasons for that too). Reed will likely prefer getting minutes in the G League than sitting on the bench every game, so I don't really see a huge problem. (Edit: Oh he also had the line about being happy to just get water to guys too, so not sure he has a big ego...relative to most players) Though I do agree that there is a stigma about high draft picks going to the G League, but I think the Rockets like to use this as a development platform when possible.
Well yeah... because that would be stupid. There's literally 0 chance that would happen. If the Rockets are smart enough to draft Sheppard, he'll be the primary backup for FVV in season one and take over as the starter in season 2. I'm not sure why some want to pretend otherwise, it's just weird.
I don't think it is weird to think it is possible for him to go to the G League, though ideally yes he's good enough to stick to the main roster. I think if Holiday returns (or another guard is signed/acquired), and if Reed is a bit slow to adjust to NBA PG play, he could definitely see minutes in the G League. And that would be a good thing IMO. Again, it is good to get development reps in the G League. Of course, if Reed is ready to contribute from Day 1 at a high level, I'm all for that.
He tested above average among players who went to the combine. Historically this population include both all the fringe prospects who were unlikely to see meaningful minutes in the NBA as well as exclude the very top prospects who don't need to risk doing drills at combines that may lower their stock. So yes, numbers are indeed numbers and it's pointless to question the results of them, but one can question how meaningful they are.
You’re compared to your peers. In general, the people invited to the combine and that choose to compete are upper tier athletes. The percentage that don’t test isn’t significantly going to change averages. Not to mention, some of the top draft picks aren’t always top level athletes. It’s weird to question actual quantifiable data, elite metrics and elite tape just because. Is he perfect? Absolutely not. But there is no doubt he is an NBA caliber athlete. There’s one reason and one alone that he is getting that type of rhetoric, and it’s stupid.
The funny thing is you say he has elite metrics and elite tape yet the Rockets seems to be mostly connected to Clingan at this point. And absolutely no one who is in the know for this stuff is giving him any prayer of going above 3. Essentially everyone that's not on a Rockets-centric fan discussion place has Sheppard's ceiling to be the 3rd pick because the Rockets need shooting. That is not how players with elite tape and measurements are treated. If he's really as good as you claim he is, then he has zero chance of making it past Washington if we assume that Atlanta's not taking a guard.
Look at you! You're FINALLY in the click! Lol You got some CRONIES! Everytime you post, the same cronies "LIKE" no matter what. Lol The old folks use to say, "you're in high cotton now." Lol
It’s all relative to your class. Don’t put words in my mouth dude. I’m not claiming he’s some elite prospect. There isn’t an elite prospect in this draft. Sheppard has some elite traits and some below average traits. The traits he has are what the rockets are sorely missing. Shooting, defense and team first play. I’m just saying anyone claiming he’s an average or “iffy” athlete is a complete moron. Also, metrics have him rated as one of the best in this class. That’s just facts. Nowhere have I seen verifiable rumors about Clingan being a Rocket. Third pick for a third string center would be dumb
I think you answered my question. FVV, Steph, Iverson and Calvin all had/have excellent handles. Which separates them. I wouldn't include Reed w/JaMorant. That's a different class of athlete.
Iverson was similar type of athlete as Morant. He was even smaller than Ja but had elite agility paired with creative handles.
He said Sheppard has iffy agility, not iffy athleticism. If you read the rest of his description of Sheppard's game you'd know he wasn't saying the latter. So I'm not sure if you're trying to be contrarian for the sake of it at this point. As for Clingan he is the only player among the potential lottery picks to have worked out with the Rockets. So until further notice he's clearly the guy the Rockets are most tied to.
There isn’t anything iffy at all about any athletic attribute. And you know that’s not the way it works for workouts
caint say it’s Reed or bust for me; caint say I’d be let down with Reed. I just dunno. I wanted Bari not PB. I like Bari; I’m sorry twerent t’other guy. Gimme a year, preferably 2, then I’ll tell you who coulda/woulda/shoulda.
