He isn't going to step down. He already fired the judges and replaced them so he could unconstitutionally run for another term. There is nothing to stop him from continuing to run until he dies. He has already shown up to the Legislature with armed soldiers to get his way.He has replaced 10 Supreme Court judges when he is only allowed to replace 5 by law. He locked up people for violating COVID restrictions. He had the legislature change the law to where 12 years olds are being put in prison. The attorney general was investigating his corruption and he removed the attorney general. Yes getting rid of crime is great, but at what cost? What he is doing is akin to just rounding up people in South Chicago, not giving them trials or mass trials in the guise of making the city safer. The boot lickers on this thread are just circle jerking to the authoritarians they have proven to love.
This happens a lot in history. The people voted him in because they were fed up with crime. They didn't care about upholding traditions for the Rule of Law because the institutions designed to uphold the law failed or were captured by corruption. We really won't know the final verdict until Bukelle steps down either voluntarily or by force. Chavez comes to mind, though his rise was through campaigning for Socialist Leftist Populism. People who starve and live in fear will ultimately give up some Universal Rights in exchange for a promise that's yet to be kept. Asian states do that frequently and somewhat more successfully than others, but for these countries in Latin America, it's more like the class lines between ruling elite and middle-poor are so deep that some have more Universal Rights than others. Anyone would feel pissed living under that.
Living under Bukele [which, by all appearances, isn't that dictatorial] > living in a lawless Mad Max hellscape where murder, rape, extortion are constant companions and it's not even close. The people of El Salvador, who lived that experience are overwhelmingly, overwhelmingly pro-Bukele.
To think El Salvador resembles a dictatorship in any way is wishful thinking and absolute bs..... There has not been one single freedom traded for security, not a single one.... There isn't a single official in office that hasn't been elected by the people, not a single one and Bukele has not broken a single law to serve a second term..... The truth of the matter is, El Salvador is showing that leftism does not work. That its okay to pick up the trash criminals off the streets. The success Bukele has had is what angers them the most. This is why other nations are asking for Bukele type leadership in their countries. El Salvador is a free country, there is freedom of speech and freedom of the press. The people have chosen their leadership because those in power today have shown El Salvador what freedom truly looks like.
Boggles the mind how some people are doing mental gymnastics trying to assert El Salvador was better off without Bukele. The evidence is extremely overwhelming that is not the case. By like, every metric imaginable.
Exactly, I have family in El Salvador and not a single one has ever even come close to ever stating El Salvador was better off.... Not even the couple who were hardcore leftist FMLN supporters can say El Salvador was better off.... And its not even just that they solved the crime issue, its that the entire country has entered a new age were tourism and investment has started to flourish. Just the development and infrastructure of the country is so much different than 5 years ago, I'm still shocked just arriving at the airport. Never did I imagine El Salvador would even have something not only resembling a U.S airport but in some cases even nicer. There are soooo many tourism videos just like this, imagine going to a dictator ruled country for tourism.... Or investing in a dictator ruled country
This is an interesting thread and situation with interesting arguments made by multiple people. But there are points being made that clash in a way in which both can't be true. Losing the freedom to have a fair trial is about as big of a tradeoff as one can give. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino...thousands-imprisoned-gang-crackdown-rcna96719 Is this fiction? Or have Salvadorians given/lost the right to fair trials? This looks beyond propaganda, clear movie-like directed scenes. I wonder what the holocaust would have looked like with nazi directed TikTok videos. I'm not conflating the two situations, I'm just saying I wonder what it would have looked like. The crime dropping as a result of the government's actions is obviously a tremendous burden lifted from society. I've also heard from a few Salvadorians how relieved, and how much more satisfied with life. I believe it, It's not to be overlooked. That being said, that doesn't necessarily mean the actions, specifically how they are being executed, are purely good. As a silly example, you could execute all men and boys on the planet tomorrow, and replace all fertilization with lab-grown invitro sperm cells that only generate girls. Okay, you just cut 95% of the crime (murder, rape, war, assaults) on the planet. I'm sure some would argue - it's a net positive, it's a blessing, based, don't be a cuck, and so on. Right, if he were to put in place his best attempt at a great democratic system and judicial system going forward and then step down, maybe the calls of an evil dictator would be softened, but that would be more than rare. It's also a good point to be made, a dictator can very well produce a safer / better functioning society than a free one. There's not shame in acknowledging that, it may turn upside down and quick as it turned around, but it can be "good" for a majority of a society, for a time at least. It is funny to see the adamant small government people praise such a situation as the Gov jailing 1% of the population. Also funny to see the nugget about covid https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/04/15/el-salvador-police-abuses-covid-19-response By god they're nearly New Zealand
Trump shouldn't have lied about El Salvador sending criminals to the U.S. Conservatives love Bukele and he generally is an ally to MAGA. No need to throw El Salvador under the bus to try win political points. Anyhow, interesting catchup on what has happened down there. Maybe it's time to visit and for all El Salvadorians to return since it's a new paradise? Maybe we should all go? https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/12/americas/el-salvador-returners-bukele-crackdown/index.html
The situation in El Salvador is complicated. First - it is objectively true that the murder rate and violent crime rate has fallen in El Salvador. Second - it is also objectively true that El Salvador was in chaos and controlled by street gangs and criminals before Bukele. Third - RIGHT NOW things are better for most El Salvadorians because they do not have to fear thugs robbing or killing them. However - it is also true that Bukele has systematically removed democratic protections, has increased his power over the country and that it may well be a real issue in the future. Bukele for example has supported and gotten passed - a formal withdraw of many basic civil rights over the last two years, and that bill is still in effect. He also has had laws changed to put children in jail as young as 12, to have kangaroo courts to convict large numbers of people at once - deaths in federal prisons in El Salvador are officially no longer being investigated either. There is also no longer judicial independence - and a lot of people have just disappeared after meeting with government officials. El Salvador also has the highest incarceration rate in the world. So - the reality is that I can understand why El Salvadorians support Bukele at this point. They were in a vicious and terrible position before. Gangs controlled the streets and even government. The murder and violent crime rate was staggering and has fallen by over 100%. There is no magic to it, Bukele suspended human rights and arrested or killed everyone suspected of being a gang member or supporter. Will he still have a high approval rating in 5 years? I don't know - but I will say I am very skeptical of him, because there is a history of men riding into town, addressing problems while also increasing their own power and suspending human rights - only to be dictators. This isn't really a liberal versus democrat issue either - this is an authoritarian issue. Huge Chavez did something similar to Bukele and there are numerous others.
1. TBF, I've only been speaking to right now - I don't have a crystal ball - I'm happy to adjust my opinion on the situation in the future. 2. The United States, and probably most other Democratic countries, have suspended rights in the face of national emergencies before [usually in wartime]. It is not an uncommon practice. I think for Bukele to do so recently with the crisis El Salvador faced was reasonable. The problems El Salvador faced were incurable any other way as far as I can tell. If critics of Bukele's real time actions, not his potential future actions, had their way El Salvador would not have seen the transformation it did. The civil rights/liberties critics said were violated require a robust and non-corrupt legal system/judicial/law enforcement arm that El Salvador simply did not have and even when countries do have those institutions the heightened expectations make prosecuting and proving crimes beyond a reasonable doubt, difficult, time/resource consuming, slow/ponderous and generally impractical for cleaning up a situation like Bukele needed to do. 3. As we have seen in our own country and others, national interests can and do trump personal civil rights and liberties at times. I don't have a tremendous problem with that when I agree the circumstances call for it. I think most people would agree El Salvador's situation called for it. Certainly the people of El Salvador seem very happy to trade some rights for security - and, you know what, fair enough.
