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The Hush Money Trial

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by deb4rockets, Apr 13, 2024.

  1. edwardc

    edwardc Member

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    True so true and it would piss off his followers .
     
    FranchiseBlade and deb4rockets like this.
  2. Kim

    Kim Member

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    I remember going over this issue pre-trial. I'm generally in agreement with Honig's piece the other day.
    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/trump-was-convicted-but-prosecutors-contorted-the-law.html
    So, to inflate the charges up to the lowest-level felony (Class E, on a scale of Class A through E) — and to electroshock them back to life within the longer felony statute of limitations — the DA alleged that the falsification of business records was committed “with intent to commit another crime.” Here, according to prosecutors, the “another crime” is a New York State election-law violation, which in turn incorporates three separate “unlawful means”: federal campaign crimes, tax crimes, and falsification of still more documents. Inexcusably, the DA refused to specify what those unlawful means actually were — and the judge declined to force them to pony up — until right before closing arguments. So much for the constitutional obligation to provide notice to the defendant of the accusations against him in advance of trial. (This, folks, is what indictments are for.) In these key respects, the charges against Trump aren’t just unusual. They’re bespoke, seemingly crafted individually for the former president and nobody else.

    I think the most reasonable explaination was not the tax crap, but clearly the election. This wasn't an ongoing affair like John Edwards, but a story that he wanted killed because it would hurt his campaign and came out around the same time as the "grap em by the P" video, right? Anyhow, that federal campaign crime predicate is imo not a crime. Yes, Cohen plead guilty to the crime, lol, but he's also an idiot. I already posted a clear article from a former FEC commissioner explaining why it isn't a crime, but I'll find it later. Anyhow, this will be interesting to watch. I think the jury came back with the proper verdict. I just think the NY law is arguably unconstitutional and will be overturned by SCOTUS. It's a shame that the most clear case is in Florida in front of probably the most biased judge.
     
    rocketsjudoka likes this.
  3. GOATuve

    GOATuve Member

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    I laughed.

    Honest question though, we have a felon who belongs in prison (I know he's not going there) and a senile old man who doesn't know who and where he is half the time. Do you have any other suggestions? That's a sincere question because you're an honest poster. Somehow this has to get fixed
     
  4. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    One is governing the other wants to burn everything to the ground. If you can’t see that I don’t know what else to tell you Ray Charles.
     
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  5. GOATuve

    GOATuve Member

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    I hate Trump but Biden is worthless too. Nice childish insult
     
  6. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    They are both old. The huge difference between the two is that Trump is a raging sociopath who lies every single time he speaks for 5 minutes or more. That is simply not normal. He's absolutely not trustworthy to lead, or to be in charge of our nation's top secret security.

    Trump is a criminal, a con, and a man with a lust for adoration and attention, money, and power. He is a prime target for the most evil leaders of the world to use for their advantage. They know his weaknesses, and they are smarter than him. They know he is susceptible to bribery, with a little praise and adoration.

    I honestly wish Biden had passed the torch to someone younger. Trump will never pass the torch. He will oust or blackball anyone not full onboard MAGA. Biden has "old" moments, but I wouldn't call him senile. In fact, I have no doubt he is mentally and physically more sound than Trump, and definitely smarter. Trump has both gross and fine motor issues, and couldn't even stay awake at his own trial. Who sleeps through their own trial? He has also been rambling bizarre and downright crazy stuff when he speaks off the cuff from his same ole same ole canned speeches. Stuff that is often unintelligible or makes no sense whatsoever. As for his canned speeches it's the same stuff different day over and over. It's always about him, his "persecution" and all those he considers crooked and evil. Blah blah blah and doom and gloom with a bunch of lies and propaganda mixed in. It's like listening to a broken record on repeat.

    Trump believes the law doesn't apply to him. He's a con and criminal. He wants to rule like an Autocrat/Dictator with vengeance and revenge. Biden believes in Democracy, and building a better future for our country. He's taken big steps towards making that happen. Trump has no real plan other than to build a better future for himself, make himself immune to all prosecution, lower taxes for the wealthy, and mass deportation.
     
    #1826 deb4rockets, Jun 5, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2024
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  7. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    Then sit your ass at home and don't vote for either.

     
  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member
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    Biden for a guy who is worthless was able to get legislation that Trump had multiple “weeks”
    About but couldn’t get it done.

    For that matter he got legislation passed in something’s like gun control that not even Obama could get done.
     
  9. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member
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    Even if Biden was the worthless doddering man who can barely feed himself that critics believe we’ve yet to hear anyone who had been in his cabinet say he is a threat to the Constitution like we have with Trump.

    You can dislike Biden but also want to maintain our constitutional system.
     
  10. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    I didn't bother with the tax (didn't read into it). Clearly, it was about the election. But the DA went for 3 options. Even if FECA (and to me he violated it and it's a crime) doesn't apply, there are two others to stand on.

    [​IMG]
    Clearinghouse: 2016 Election Interference Case - Manhattan District Attorney (justsecurity.org)

    The claim that the "Inexcusably, the DA refused to specify what those unlawful means actually were — and the judge declined to force them to pony up — until right before closing arguments." is factually false, so I don't think that's going to fly in an appeal. I don't think the defense can argue they didn't know what the accusations were before the trial.

    It was there in Nov'23 (grand jury, pretrial)

    [​IMG]

    And Feb 24 (judge ruling, pretrial):

    [​IMG]

    As for the Supreme Court, I don't know, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if they latch on to some technicality to overturn. NY Court first though. Appeal will probably not be ruled on before the election.
     
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  11. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    This oft-repeated claim flies in the face of reality.

    For a "senile old man who doesn't know who and where he is half the time" to be the President of the United States, the following would have to be true as part of an implausible conspiracy to hide it:

    1. Journalists: The dedicated pool of journalists who follow the President closely would have to conspire to hide his supposed cognitive decline. These are professionals whose careers are built on uncovering and reporting significant truths.

    2. Congressional Members: Members of Congress, including political opponents who scrutinize and critique his every move, would have to remain silent about such a glaring issue. This is highly unlikely given the partisan nature of contemporary politics.

    3. Administration Members: Hundreds of people within the administration, including senior advisors and staffers who interact with the President daily, would have to collude in this deception. Their loyalty to the truth and their country would preclude such widespread dishonesty.

    4. Cabinet Members: The President’s Cabinet, composed of experienced leaders and experts, would have to be complicit. These are individuals with their own reputations and legacies to consider.

    5. World Leaders: Foreign leaders who meet with the President regularly would have to go along with this charade, despite having no reason to do so and every reason to expose a weak U.S. leader for their own strategic advantage.
    The idea that all these diverse groups—many with conflicting interests—would successfully engage in a vast, coordinated cover-up is not only improbable but borders on the absurd. Such a far-reaching conspiracy defies common sense and the nature of political and media dynamics.

    In reality, the President continues to perform the demanding duties of his office, engaging in complex decision-making and high-level diplomacy. The suggestion that he is cognitively impaired to the extent claimed does not withstand scrutiny when considering the practicalities and logistics involved. He is older and slower, but he's all there.
     
  12. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    Late reply, but I had to give it a bit more thought.

    I don't see it that way (him repeating and relying on MAGA disinfo). What he's arguing here isn't about legality but politics and the 2024 election. He recognizes what MAGA disinformation is, and however much you and I think it's disinformation, it's MAGA reality. More importantly, it is also probably accepted to some level by the general public outside of MAGA.

    I agree with you that martyrdom doesn't matter here. An appeal would likely not factor into the 2024 election.

    Biden's move to ask for a pardon would be bad because: 1) he shouldn't interfere with state legal affairs (neither pushing for nor hindering them), and 2) doing it for political reasons is worse.

    Let the sentencing play out and the appeal process take its course.
     
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  13. Jugdish

    Jugdish Member

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    I mean, Reagan had Alzheimer's his second term and it never came up. I suspect a lot of the GOP old guard don't actually want Trump to win. It's better for them when they can just play defense: complain about Democrats, try to stop them from passing legislation, and not have to do any policy work themselves.
     
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  14. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  15. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    Everyone upholding the rule of law is interfering with his chance to to be elected...

     
  16. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    Probably better for fundraising for them as well. "America faces a dark time, with communism and wokeness rising..." blah blah blah. The copy kind of writes itself, especially with AI.
     
  17. GOATuve

    GOATuve Member

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    That's exactly what I'll be doing
     
  18. GOATuve

    GOATuve Member

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    You're a goofy
     
  19. edwardc

    edwardc Member

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    Look what someone went and done

    Seen in Wind Gap this morning southbound RT-33.

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    I may be goofy, but I have never felt the need to lie about the candidate I voted for nor the candidate I intend to vote for.
     

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