It's not the right for someone to hold office that I'm concerned about. It's the right of the voter to choose who they want to lead them. Here's a suggestion on how to split the baby. To be listed on the ballot, you must not be serving time for a felony. But, if you're somehow elected anyway (like a giant write-in campaign), you're still eligible to serve. In that fashion, felons are effectively disqualified from office, but you preserve a narrow lane for the American Nelson Mandela to still be president if it's truly the people's will. Trump must have stiffed him on his legal bills. If Trump won the election and he was in a New York prison, I could understand a commutation. If the dumbasses who somehow hold citizenship in this country want Trump as president despite everything, they should probably let him out of prison so he can go be president. Not for his sake, but for the voters'. A commutation, not a pardon. A pardon suggests the state of New York actually forgives his behavior, which they have no reason to do and would, in my eyes, look like an insult to the 12 jurors who sat through that crap and to all the people of New York. A commutation is more practical -- it says you're still guilty but we will let you out because it serves our own interests. But, if he loses, what interest do we have to pardon him? None that I can see. Or, if he's serving a sentence that doesn't interfere with being president, why would we try to cure it? All it does is to say loud and clear that the rich and powerful do not have the same justice in the end as you and me.
Perhaps, and probably very likely. But its amazing how many people once free of the need to lie for him are then able to tell the truth. Former lawyers like ty cobb. Former aides like sara matthews, alyssa griffen, and cassidy hutchinson, former cabinet members like milley, mattis, esper, bolton, kelley, mcmaster, to name a few.
Multiple Trump Witnesses Have Received Significant Financial Benefits From His Businesses, Campaign One campaign aide had his average monthly pay double, from $26,000 to $53,500. Another employee got a $2 million severance package barring him from voluntarily cooperating with law enforcement. And one of the campaign’s top officials had her daughter hired onto the campaign staff, where she is now the fourth-highest-paid employee. These pay increases and other benefits often came at delicate moments in the legal proceedings against Trump. One aide who was given a plum position on the board of Trump’s social media company, for example, got the seat after he was subpoenaed but before he testified. https://www.propublica.org/article/donald-trump-criminal-cases-witnesses-financial-benefits
If we're dreamcasting about amending the constitution, I'd delete the second amendment before worrying about felons running for office. That's meta. The Biden campaign is contradicting the Biden campaign on whether or not to call Trump a felon?
Agree. But politically, it's much eaiser to restrict felons than to restrict arms. Depends on the sentencing. If it's 4 years (which is extreme, IMO, for this particular case), and if he loses, commuting his sentence is okay, but with the usual conditions - probation appointments, regular drug testing, and other standard requirements. There is also another perspective (or one that is expressed with more logical thoughts than the usual social media hot take postings). Not agreeing (or disagreeing), but sharing: https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/article288898244.html Joe Biden should seek a pardon in Trump verdict and prevent disunity, martyrdom | Opinion By David Mastio Regular Opinion Correspondent Updated May 31, 2024 1:27 PM Donald Trump has been destined to become the first president convicted of a felony since the day he came down the escalator at Trump Tower and announced he was running for president. The man had no respect for convention, for law or for the Constitution, and now he has been branded a criminal with the prospect of jail time for the 34 counts on which he was convicted. Tonight is a moment to celebrate that even for Teflon Don, eventually our criminal justice system could gather itself and deliver consequences. But that celebration should be short. ... The smart move for Biden is to ask the Democratic governor of New York, Kathy Hochul, to use her clemency power to pardon Trump. First, because as much as Trump has trashed the norms of our Democratic system, we do not want to go down the road of the party of an incumbent president prosecuting his chief political opponent for paperwork infractions. Presidential campaigns produce a lot of paper, pushed by a lot of people. An ambitious prosecutor with a partisan lens can always find an indictable offense if not deliver a conviction in open court. Second, because it most likely ends Trump’s ability to appeal the verdict against him. Courts will rule any appeal moot if Trump has been pardoned and does not face jail or fines for his crimes. Democrats should not be so confident that such a complicated case will withstand appellate scrutiny at both the state and the federal level. After a pardon, the stain of conviction will be permanent. Third, because it strips Trump of the martyrdom mantle he could well ride into the White House. Moreover, it builds up Democrats and Biden as the adults who, when offered partisan advantage against a wounded opponent, chose to put the nation first. Biden won in 2020 because an exhausted nation turned to him for a chance at peace. This is his opportunity to deliver.
Biden (if he wins re-election) should never be naive enough to give Trump a pardon or work out a commutation unless there is an ironclad agreement made. I have always said that I would be willing to support a pardon if an agreement is made. One that effectively crashes down this fascist cult, and free's the Republican party to rebuild. Trump would have to issue a major public apology, and he would have to for once in his life be honest that he wrongly used his voters to manipulate them to believe things that are not true for his own benefit. He would have to agree to never run for office again. He would have to agree to step away from politics for good..... AND... here's the most important part.... He would have to require that the Republicans in the Senate sign off on impeachment to bar him from running from office again. There's just no way that I allow him to be pardon'ed without those things happening. I do not trust Trump to simply issue one statement of apology because once he gets that pardon, he'll just be right back at it again, and be running again in 2028 even more emboldened that before. He MUST be barred via Congressional Impeachment to ensure he doesn't just back track on his words. Biden would be stupid to give this guy a Pardon without at the very least an impeachment vote and conviction in the senate.
Ehh, not a fan of that argument. 1. He repeats and relies on MAGA disinformation that this was Democrats' prosecution and not really New York's. It appears even Trump's opponents can't always understand that a state would want justice for crimes committed. 2. It dysfunctionally looks to a pardon to abrogate Trump's access to justice. If the conviction is wrong as a matter of law (it's already settled on the matter of fact by the jury), it should be reversed. Maybe he thinks it's "smart" to walk away when you're ahead, but it isn't just. If the conviction is just, ride it to the end. 3. Martyrdom has already been achieved. Everyone already has their opinion on Trump and a pardon won't change that. Biden will not get credit for showing mercy. Trump will instead get the credit for once again outsmarting accountability. Besides which, the author again is sublimating the interest in justice to the interest of political advantage. Indictments of Trump should not be (and I think have not been) a political exercise to get future partisan advantage. It should be to get accountability for past transgressions. Political leaders should not be sacrificing justice for advantage, like they're suggesting here. That pardon power was intended to give the governor a tool to achieve more justice, not less. If we're thinking about the good of our nation, honestly the best thing is 91 convictions. There will be turmoil in the short term, but an important precedent for the long term.
Biden likely will not tell the NY governor what to do. This also applies to the GA governor, if/when Trump loses his election interference case there. IIRC the GA governor might not even have the power to pardon Trump if convicted. The federal cases are different. Biden could pardon those convictions. I am unsure that he would or would not. I would not be surprised, if Biden did, that he would make Trump accept a charge that would prevent Trump from running for POTUS again ... but that would cause its own **** storm.
So many liberals are so blinded by hate that they have no clue how badly this campaign to disqualify a populist candidate is blowing up in their face.
The only campaign I've seen to disqualify a candidate was from a couple of states. One of which was brought by Republicans. The courts overturned it. Outside of that, there hasn't been a campaign to disqualify a candidate.
According to the latest polls half of said Trump should end his campaign because of the conviction. Overall though the polls show little change. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/plu...verdict-correct-hush-money/story?id=110744698 Most telling though is this: "A majority of Independents think Trump's verdict was correct, 52%, and the same amount believe that he should end his candidacy. For double-haters, those reactions are even more pronounced -- 65% of Americans who view both Trump and Biden unfavorably think the verdict this week was correct, with 67% believing Trump should end his presidential campaign."
