Sengun is way better than Sabonis, and there's absolutely no similarities between the way Jokic and Sabonis operate their teams' offense other than the positions they play. You really need to watch the actual games more and boxscore watch less. While the Nuggets and Jokic operate on the low block with post ups, the Kings and Sabonis operate at the elbow with handoffs. They are 2 completely different things and have no similarities whatsoever.
Check the math dude - at least on statsmuse- Sabonis is in the top 15 of most doubled player in the league - was that your crushing argument? You are so certain about Sengun but don’t seem to have any context whatsoever about Sabonis…and hey - that’s fine, but frankly you aren’t winning any argument because you don’t actually know anything about Sabonis that you haven’t inferred from a stat line. That’s not how this works. I’m not going to believe the guy who says cake is sooo much better than pie if they only know pie from what they saw on a 15 second commercial….and that’s also why I won’t continue to argue with you about it because it would make me dumb to argue with someone who clearly hasn’t lifted a finger to fact check or attempt to understand the theories they are spouting.
Wait - didn’t Udoka move Sengun to the elbow late in the season to “make it easier for him to read doubles”? Who’s not watching games again? I’ll admit I haven’t watched every game this year but I saw 80% of them(annd even an handful in person) including a rough stretch of Sengun games mid season. He had just broken out of the slump when he got hurt.
Green can honestly go to RFA and let’s see how much we got to pay him. Amen/Cam I expect max contracts, Jabari probably get away with less than max though I expect a big year for him next year. Tari is questionable with probably high role player money
How is your question remotely related to anything I post? And no, Udoka didn't move Sengun to the elbow late in the season to "make it easier for him to read doubles", he moved Sengun to the elbow late in the season to "make it difficult for other teams to double him". Nice try, but do better.
I was referring to how the mvp voting works. You vote for 5 people. Sabonis got 1 vote, not some votes. And that one person viewed him as a top 5 mvp candidate. You can see the voting results here Sabonis is a very good player. But he is a player who raises the floor very well but the ceiling not much. And I don't see that kind of player as a max player, particularly at the center position. The big contributing to playmaking is a very rare species. That's why people tend to compare Sengun, sabonis and jokic a lot. Actually they have very different styles as well so the comparisons and the conclusions drawn from the direct comparisons are not very fruitful imo.
Still, I would advise you to stay calm. We are not having a fight. I don't have a problem with you, but I am also not the one try to belittle the other by calling stan or dumb. I am probably more familiar with Sabonis's game than you think. Maybe not as much as you but I got a decent idea. And I am pretty sure he is not a very creative player. My impression is Sengun gets double teamed more than Sabonis. If that turns out to be wrong, I am okay with it too. To verify that I googled, just like you did. And came up with the same statsmuse page. But I also looked at the table, rather than just check where sabonis is. And the table doesn't have any double team stats. It is a list of most possessions. Actually some other poster has already pointed out that to you. Here is a link to all of Sabonis's 2 pt makes and misses, that will give you an idea of how often he gets doubled: https://thehighlow.io/video/player/nba/2023-24/1627734/make2pa,make2p,miss2p?ordsq=asc&shotFilters=
I don't know why we are even entertaining all this trolling but let's go. Sabonis isn't even in the conversation anymore when it comes to Sengun's potential ceiling. He's a floor-level outcome for Sengun at this point, and Sengun would need to basically stall in his development either through injury, some sort of work ethic issue, some personal stuff, I don't know - it's an outlier result. I don't even need to cite stats here (but go look them up please, and also projection scores like DARKO etc) - everyone who watches both can see how lacking Sabonis is in offense compared to Sengun, he has nowhere near Sengun's creativity, vision, playmaking, passing, etc. You can argue Sengun as he is today is somewhat similar to Sabonis, which might be a more tenable point, but would still be debatable. Saying Sabonis is an MVP-caliber player especially this year based on some weird voting process where literally one wild homer rated Sabonis in the 4th place or something is ridiculous at best, and ill-intentioned at worst, especiaily since that vote was wildly ridiculed by a good number of folks in every basketball community. But of course, anti-Sengun guys won't hesitate to use anything to push their agenda.I bet those same folks would claim that MVP votes are meaningless if say I brought up Donovan Mitchell's votes from previous years (which were higher than Sabonis actually) and argue why we should trade certain players in our roster for him. Go figure. The lengths some of you folks will go to to push an agenda is unbelievable. I don't know why this fanbase is so obsessed with making this team worse, but it needs to be studied in a lab.
Can you send a link to this? Afaik NBA no longer publishes this stat, and I couldn't get Statmuse to replicate it - although I'm not sure how they'd get it if NBA isn't publishing it. Some good reading on this - even if we had the proper stats, players don't get double teamed just because they are good. Sometimes they are prone to steals, and sometimes rest of the team is basically not good and can be sagged off of: https://inf.news/en/sport/0ebf6d4a48829715b46bddfed88ba89a.html One piece of stat I found, apparently from NBA Synergy Stats - Sengun was the 4th most doubled player as of March 6 on post-up plays:
I, on the other hand, think Sengun is the perfect comparison to Sabonis. Just as Kobe to Jordan. Similar body types, similar moves, playmaking, etc. Sabonis is a good player, borderline All Star / All Star depending on the yr. But he is not a MVP Candidate. And I think that's where some of us disagree. I know this is going to hurt some but Sengun is NOT perfect; he is not a rim protector, he is undersized for his position, he is not a threat outside of 15ft, nor does he rebound outside of his area, like Jokic. This is why I think we NEED Sarr! To pair with Sengun. Since Sengun is not Jokic, a player with Sarr's skills can benefit Sengun.
I never looked at Sabonis in totality, because he plays for a different team, so I never did a deep dive, just on the surface. However, after looking at his stats and his game highlights, I think we may be selling him short. Dude is quicker than I thought and he looks comfortable at the 3pt line and obviously he is good around the basket, plus he avg over 13 rbpg! His 2023 stats were 20pts, 13 rbs, and 8 assist....That's very good! Don't you think? While, still good but Alpi avg, 21ppg, 9rbpg and 5 assist. Sabonis was a better rebounder and playmaker. My point is, if Alpi can get to Sabonis's level, it's still won't be enough in the West. Just look at Sacramento. Teams in the West are bigger, so you need to be able to match their size. In conclusion, the Rockets either need a very good shot blocking presence next to Sengun or look to move him, like Indy chose to do with Sabonis. Why else would they give up on a young promising center....BECAUSE HE IS LIMITED. This is why shooting is not on top of my list, as is getting more size. The Rockets can score but we need size more so.
Sabonis is clearly still better than Sengun, I have him as a lower end top 10 level player. Counting and advanced stats back that up. He does however have some weaknesses in certain playoff matchups that mainly showed up last season against Draymond. That said, I expect Sengun to surpass him within a few years assuming he continues on his developmental track. I would not trade Sengun for Sabonis.
