It’s pretty clear now that playoffs are about Dudes. If there is 25% chance that Green turns out to be a Dude, I think I'm going to hold on to that for a bit longer.
He will never be the guy, he will be a nice scoring role player, but not worthy of the number 2 pick. He is a bust as a pick that high should have been in the teens - he will have a decent career, but will never live up to the hype or to the expectations, he isn't a leader, isn't a great player and isn't worth having on the team if you can get someone more consistent, not even a star, just more consistent. DD
Not Franz. Definitely Lindsay if she has all her bionics. Maybe Honus if we could then do a trade with the Astros. I also think I'd do Sengun for Richard just for the cultural impact. I'd also really have to think about Sengun for the remains of the Wagner Group--depends on how many tanks they could bring along. (Here's Richard's most famous piece with Bill Murray conducting the London Philharmonic.)
Now that im back at work i have the time to rebuttal this. Dont you worry i dont mind doing the research because im not a pompous ass like you who thinks he knows it all. So i will do the leg work and prove you wrong. I wont make this a pissing test and argue how much smarter i think i am than you either. None the less here goes. I went and checked the game logs for every player and the results are as follows. If you don't believe The Data, doesn't bug me, it is ok to have different experiences and opinions.....do your own research if you have doubts. But for giggles. Mike James had a season were he averaged 20ppg at the age of 30 on a 27win toronto team as the #2 guy behind a young bosh. His best stretch before this was only a 6 game stretch we he averaged 17.8pts/5.5ast/3.7rbd and a 5-1 record. Also it was the year prior with Houston at the age of 29. Pretty far off of Jalen Greens March. Failed to meet the standard. MCWs best stretch was ironically his very first 7 games of his rookie season where he won ROY. He went 18.7pts/8.1ast/2.6rbds and led philly to a 4-3 record. Again failed to meet the standard of play of Jalens March. TJ Warren did have a great season that year at the ripe age of 26. He did have a comparable 6 game stretch to end the bubble regular season averaging 31pts/2ast/6.3rbds and leading the pacers to a 4-2 record. I would say this is a solid example, albeit a player in his prime and not as long of a stretch. Successful example. Devin Harris was actually an all-star one year so he is instantly disqualified but none the less his best stretch was a 5 game stretch the year prior were he averaged 20.4pts/5ast/2.2rbd and a 4-1 record. Failed to meet the standard. John Salmons had his best season at 29 but ill take his best stretch from the young age of 28 which so far is the only comparable one in length of games played. Over a 13 game stretch he averaged 21pts/4.1ast/5.3rbds and leading his team to a 6-7 record. Again even in his prime failed to meet the standard. Dana Barros was an all star thus instantly disqualified but none the less the year prior he had a 5 game stretch where he averaged 20.8pts/6ast/4.8rbds and led the team to a 3-2 record. Failed to meet the standard again. Just face that you have selective memory and you dont know what your talking about. Its easy to say things in absolute without data. As i am sure you will spin this in some fashion. now @Nook provided some decent names as well. Jamaal Magloire somehow made an all-star appearance going 13pts/10rbds/1ast his 4th year. He had a 5game stretch the year prior at 24 where he averaged 15.8pts/13.2rbd/2ast with a record of 4-1. Demarre Carrol at the age of 28 had a 6 game stretch averaging 22pts/2.2ast/6rbds. Very much an outlier for his career but wouldnt say it stacks up in comparison. Kyle Korver randomly had that all-star appearance with the hawks. He became more consistent with age but didnt have a huge scoring outburst hot streak. he definitely had little pops here and there of 3 games or less. He had his best 6 game stretch in his 3rd year where he averaged 18pts/3ast/3.7rbd and helped his team reach a 5-1 record. Which doesnt come close to Jalens. Jeff Teague was another random Atlanta All-star. He had a pretty good 10 game stretch at the end of the year prior where he averaged 20pts/5.5ast/2.2rbd and led the hawks to a 6-4 record as a 25 year old. Wouldnt say it matches up. What i think is being missed here is just how good Jalens streak really was. Jalen had a 15 game stretch where he led the team to a 13-2 record and averaged 29.2pts/3.7ast/6.2rbds at the age of 22. Hate the guy all you want, that long of a "hot streak", at his young of an age, with that level of production, is very rare. Those who do it, typically always become an all-star.
this is the very best example I have seen both mentioned and researched on my own. Flip had an 11 game stretch at the beginning of his 4th year at the age of 24 where he led the Sonics to a 7-4 record and averaged 23.9pts/4.4ast/4.3rbd. Very much an outlier and he never amounted to much. Wasnt as productive of a stretch, nor as successful, nor as young, but a great example none the less. Which further illustrates how this doesnt happen "A MILLION TIMES".
It certainly doesn't happen a million times and it is why the Murray stretch (I remember it) and Linsanity and Jalen Green's stretch get attention. The reality is that most players lack the minutes or ability to average 28 points for a month. At this point I do not believe that anyone objectively can deny that Jalen Green has the ability in him to average 25 points a night. Yes - he needs to clean up his shooting some, and he needs to be more consistently focused, but the talent is there for him to average at least 25 a night in the modern NBA. His ability and talent are not a fluke. Where the concern comes in is whether or not Green will do what it takes to consistently play at that level. I think that those questions are fair, and there have been a number of players that had the ability and failed to maintain it. Many of the players that failed did so because of substance abuse or injury. That does not apply to Jalen Green. He has never been in trouble off the court and there has been zero rumors of any drug concerns. Where I think there is so fair concern is that he has not shown consistent focus over the course of an entire season and he has not played three seasons. Indeed, even this season he did not finish the year as focused. Some of that can be that he was around KPJ and Silas and Christopher and he was never held accountable. However - he does seem to let issues off the court impact his play, and although it is 2024 - the fact he has had two children with two women in the same 6 month period of time could lead to off the court issues that influence his on court performance. So - really, at least for me - it isn't a question of ability or talent... and not even really work ethic, but it is a question of whether you do or do not trust Jalen Green to focus on basketball.
I for one never liked his shooting form, he tweaked it first with John Lucas and then worked with shooting coaches I am sure.... however it is really not good looking. He should stop shooting 3s that much and shoot the midrange, maybe a change in shot diet would do wonders....... You do not really have to score 25 ppg when you are not a great shooter, it is about reasonable output that is not forced by putting up 6 or 7 treys a game no matter the efficiency. He is talented and a lot of things he has to force himself to do, that is the strange part.
It's funny because multiple opposing team connectors who were former players mind you have expressed how effortless is form is. His issue is he takes a wide variation of movement shots when his body hasn't been conditioned for it yet against NBA defenses. There is no consistency in things like how high he jumps for a jump shot. But when he isn't trying to jump as high as he can to make a contested fadeaway his jumper looks balanced, one motion and quick. The only unconventional aspect of his shot is the load up being cross body and sometimes he uses his guide hand fingers to direct the ball on release. But the overall form is effortless and one motion.
This is why you don't supply comparisons, because then people just nitpick the choices, and not the actual contextual meanings. I stand by whom I posted as players that had hot streaks and never lived up or turned into star players...... I don't care that you find that context not up to your standards - those are YOUR standards, and arguing back and forth about my standards vs your standards is a ****ing waste of time. So, feel free to disagree - but JALEN GREEN will NEVER be a Superstar player, that ship has sailed. He will be a scorer in the league that can get hot, but not one to build a team around, more of a Lou Williams type...than anything else..... And I am not a pompous ASS, just a regular one at times - I just disagree with you - and that is ok for us both. DD
Tell you what - we should do a bet - you up for it? I will bet he never becomes a Superstar - and I will let you set what you think he will become - and we can devise a fair wager - to the TipJar here so the site benefits? DD
No. I just need your words of encouragement as whenever you make declarative statements about a NBA player's future the exact opposite happens.
I am not sure the "guy" is but I suppose he will never finish in the top 3 of MVP voting. I don't see why though you consider that a bust. His numbers are all around what Lavine's, Beal's, Booker's are for their first 3 years and they have all made all star teams. He still has to improve though for sure. As those 3 player examples all did. Apparently, though some people just know the future. Personally I will just continue to root for the guy and hope the players drafted stay together and keep working.
