STONE is still the HEDGE HONCHO. Why a FEW MAJOR HITS greatly TRUMPS MANY MISTAKES.

Wemby actually prolonged Popovich staying with them opposed to a future without any superstars.

Popovich is a legend but should retire soon.

They should move on gently.......

 

You think Jalen is a bust at 22yrs old and his 3rd yr in the league under his 2nd head coach and playing with his 2nd pg?

 

Starting to look that way. He's not done and dusted just yet, but is not showing the pattern of improvement you see from most successful prospects. For him to avoid the "bust" tag he is going to have to be the rare guy that suddenly turns it all around. That could still happen, but the odds are getting slim.

 

Well, I guess T-Mac and Kobe were considered bust too because they didnt do much their first 2yrs, since neither started. And were looked upon as chunckers, because they were inefficient.

You can put Jason Kidd, Chauncey Billups, and others on that list of players who struggled in there first 2-3yrs.

 

T-Mac and Kobe improved as offensive players each year. Jalen has not. (Except maybe on defense.) Billup lost most of his third year to injury. Kidd is the only one you could argue took a step back from year 2 to year 3, but you know what they say about "exception that proves the rule". (And anyway, his scoring efficiency still improved. Again, Jalen's has not.)

 

Advanced stats for the first three years of Kobe, Jalen Green and Tracy McGrady.

Can you identify the inefficient one?

 

Picking Cam at 20 took zero skill. I am not an expert and had him going at 4. Sengun is the only great pick he’s made on his own and if he had his way in the offseason he would’ve acquired old man Brook Lopez and either benched or traded Sengun as he did with all his other flop picks. Jabrari has been a bust to this point, but I’ll give Stone a break on that pick as we all would’ve picked Smith at number 3 when he was the consensus number one pick going into the draft. Tari Eason is the only other good pick, but he is WAYYYY overrated in Houston. Very good player but we treat him like a mega superstar when in reality he wasn’t good enough to start on a team with a losing record. So we have Sengun and Eason out of a ton of lottery picks and Eason is just a great role player and Stone was a Brook Lopez “Yes” away from killing Sengun’s career. We not only can do better, we can do much better at the GM position.

 

Basketball is a funny sport. If a player is receiving the ball at different angels, or not touching it as frequent or at different spots on the floor, it throws off their rhythm. It happens!

I use to wonder why Chris Paul and Capela couldn't connect on lobs, when CP3 is the Point God but Capela and Harden worked well? Change effects certain players and it takes them time to adjust.

The system is different than it was the previous 2yrs, the offense is focused on going through Sengun, so Jalen is touching the ball less or he has to find his scoring opportunities in different situations. And lets not forget, this is Jalen's first yr playing in a structured system. In highschool and the G-League it was all RUN AND GUN, where he was the focal point.....he's 22yrs old, give him time

 

Kobe was considered inefficient for yrs, thats why he didn't start. He was Cam Whitmore!

I think it would be a mistake to trade, move or assess Jalen at this point. Next yr sure but now, no.

T-Mac always had vision, and the ability to score, the problem was he didnt get enough touches in Toronto.

 

You guys love to point out numbers, however numbers only tell part of the story.

Both Kobe and T-Mac played on VETERAN TEAMS. So they had help with guidance and on how to play, what shots to take and also they were coached by veteran coaches. That makes a huge difference.

Think of the situation Jalen walked into, this is the first time he has been in a structured environment. New Head coach, new pg. Not making excuses, just providing the facts.

 

The "wrong veterans" and coaching around Jalen, is also on Stone no? Since Stone decided who stays and who goes.


Veterans around Jalen included

• Oladipo - a vet who thought he was too good to be in HOU, wanted to go to MIA, and thought he had a better deal coming. As of 3/8/24, is not signed to any team. (10 year career)
• Wood - who at the time, was playing for his next contract. Wanted a big deal, took the shots, but played no defense. (sound familiar?)
• Wall was a Westbrook contract swap. While he did see the poop show back stage, also wanted his chance to prove himself after injury. This NBA season, Wall is still currently unsigned, not in the league.

The other people Stone surrounded Green was KPJ (his twin?), best friend from school: Josh, and ignite teammate Nix. Instead of making someone feel comfortable (and feel easy), maybe a hard honest coach is what Jalen needed. Someone to instill fundamentals since he didn't get it from AAU ball and Ignite. Jamahl Mosley at Magic was picked year after Silas came here. A defensive assistant off the DAL bench (instead of Silas, the offensive one).

The young core grew with Silas and those veterans; they grew either too slow or grew crooked.

 

So give him credit for dodging it on accident

 

Im not discounting its on Stone. I never mentioned that I was fan of Stone. I just brought up that Jalen's situation was different initially than Kobe and T-Mac.

 

To be clear, never said you were a fan of Stone, which is why I didn't quote you. I bought Stone into the conversation, because Stone is the main topic of this thread. Title: Stone still being a hedge honcho.

Stats like win-share has much to do with the environment a team is built. Stone went for BPA which is fine; but during the 3 bad years, the Vets and role players chose along the way; didn't help Green much. Can argue it stunted growth of Green and the other prospects. The waste and doubling down on KPJ.

I lurk on the bbs/sub-reddits of other rebuild teams last few years. As other rebuild teams start to get better, I'd love to thump my chest and say we're also on the right track. But truthfully, the progress (while there has been very slow). Any bad habits/culture had to be undone. We're not Pistons bad, but could have been much closer to the good up-and-comer teams.

Stone put this team together so he's absolutely on the hook. I'll give him some credit on this year's pivot, but we all know that's also mandate from Tilman, Stone needed a 'deadline', if Tilman did set a clear performance goal, Stone might still be dragging his feet.


Magic and Thunder have most of their young core in place; our team needed a 2 / 5th (originally 3 / 5th) of Vet starter injection. Bench was replaced 50% new playable vets. This is because the young core development had lot of mis-steps along the way and were slow relative to the league. I'm good with the Vets saving us this season, and if it takes our young guys a little longer fine.

It's like the kids who stay back in grades; at this point I'm just glad as most of them can still graduate.

 

Someone can do a poll. Not pushing to fire Stone, but say if Stone's contract was ending this year.

Do Rocket fans want him around for the next phase. Extend or not extend.​

 

Where does the hedge part come from

 

if you’re grading him as the 2nd pick of the draft then yes. He’s showing signs of being an nba starter but that’s a bust when taking the 2nd overall pick

 

I wish I was even sold on him being a starter, that's how frustrating this season has been. I thought for sure he would at least be that good since players usually do improve going from age 21 to age 22 and so on. Just having a Devin Vassell, Austin Reaves, Malik Monk level dude would be such an improvement at this point.

 

Missed opportunity to have "quadrant of whoa / quadrant of woe"