1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

German poll on Trump

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by peleincubus, Feb 15, 2024.

  1. Xerobull

    Xerobull ...and I'm all out of bubblegum
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2003
    Messages:
    36,993
    Likes Received:
    35,904
    Bro, if the American economic and military might was suddenly controlled by a dictator and fascist government it would absolutely be the biggest threat to world ‘peace’.

    I can see a Trump regime allying with Russia and possibly China to start a world war of domination. Thats a real problem.

    The US acts as a foil against all of the other guys in that lineup. So even if, under Trump, the US withdrew from world affairs to isolationism, wars would break out all over the globe.
     
    FrontRunner likes this.
  2. HTM

    HTM Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    7,977
    Likes Received:
    5,829
    The greatest threat to world peace is the one who breaks the peace.

    Not the one who doesn't respond the way you want them to when the peace is already broken.
     
  3. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    45,954
    Likes Received:
    28,049
    Well I hope Trump is grandstanding for Old Europe to pay their share in defense, but making these threats early on has no long term political value if he doesn't act on it in some form. Judging from his first term, he'll boost spending by another 200B on top of sucker tax cuts so he can finally be preside over a military parade with him as the hero. Stephanie Kelton is so hard all over that she's ready to cut diamonds bought through Buy Now, Pay Later websites.

    I guess Trump's instability is what makes people pay attention to what he says upfront, but it'll be an interesting day when some country calls his bluff and we'll have to use those fancy weapons against a nation that knows how to use theirs.

    Some countries like Germany and Japan have been bulking up their militaries, but even the sunniest estimate for Japan's defense goals is 10 years along with healthy recruitment levels and continued support for the extra spending.

    So that's "good" for Trumpers, right? You ever badger your friends to pay up for the 50 they owe when they're known welshers, and you never really needed it? Most don't because the price of friendship outweighs the 50 you get back (intel, open tech transfer, favorable trade agreements, lower barriers of entry for your businesses, cheaper products, etc...).

    Trump reframes this as a protection racket where you badger your neighbor for 50 bucks a year in order to maintain "friendly relations." It's dumb and shortsighted because those same neighbors have zero loyalty or obligation to stick with you when things get tough (China) or when their other neighbor has a shitton of cheap sweet gas and resources that they used to stay re-elected with a Green Policy (Nord Stream).
     
    BelgianRocketsFan likes this.
  4. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2000
    Messages:
    18,822
    Likes Received:
    5,227
    This is exactly what it is - why should the USA pay the vast majority of everything? - The more other nations pay then the less we have to pay is a good thing, - it should be fair at least
     
  5. DFWRocket

    DFWRocket Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2000
    Messages:
    4,724
    Likes Received:
    2,572
    Project 2025 removes a lot of those Checks and Balances. If he gets elected, there's a great chance Project 2025 begins to get implemented during his Presidency.
     
    Andre0087 likes this.
  6. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,132
    Likes Received:
    23,418
    Yes, absolutely.

    The one who removes the deterrents that hold others from breaking peace and who encourages others to break the peace can also be the greatest threat to world peace.
     
  7. HTM

    HTM Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    7,977
    Likes Received:
    5,829
    No, that’s some dumb ass logic.

    The guy starting the wars is the guy who is the greatest threat to world peace.

    No wars, no lack of world peace.
     
  8. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2008
    Messages:
    26,934
    Likes Received:
    30,550
    If only there was some correlation between "some people being intelligent" and a country's political zeitgeist, am I right?

    I'm willing to bet these voters hate Trump for pulling out of the Paris Agreement more than they do Putin for the war in Ukraine.

    Someone has convinced all of these "intelligent" leftists that the most important things in the world are gender dysphorias and electric automobiles. (The same way Trump fans are convinced that Mexicans and gay people are going to take their jobs and make American Jesus sad.)

    I dislike Trump - vehemently - but perhaps we forget he was President for 4 years and I don't recall mass world world conflict escalation?

    If we use the measure of "servicemen deaths by hostile action" they were lower during his presidency than his predecessor (who won the nobel peace prize due to skin pigmentation, but inherited the ill-defined "war on terrorism" from his predecessor. God I love politics.)
    https://dcas.dmdc.osd.mil/dcas/app/summaryData/deaths/byYearManner

    Imagine having Donald Trump and Joe Biden representing your country of 400M people as commander-in-chief. That's bad enough. Then imagine people who think that's worse than a pampered man-child-god dictator whose entire country lives in state slavery in inhumane conditions. Humans are irrational animals. Confirmed. Can't see past their own nose and their pet issue.
     
    #28 napalm06, Feb 16, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2024
    peleincubus likes this.
  9. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,132
    Likes Received:
    23,418
    It's very logical. Imagine you have a fortress that prevents your land from being attacked. If someone come in and remove the fortress, that person is enabling the threat that was once held in place. Anyway, I put myself in the shoes of folks who believe NATO (and pretty much all of Europe believes this) is preserving peace in Europe. Thus, it's very logical for those people to say Trump is a threat, as he's stating he will effectively eliminate NATO, and he is urging Putin to do whatever he wants. (Now, I don't necessary agree with that view myself, but I completely understand it from their perspective).
     
  10. HTM

    HTM Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    7,977
    Likes Received:
    5,829
    It’s ridiculous logic.

    Its like saying FDR was a greater threat to world peace in 1939, because he didn’t guarantee European democracies securities, then Hitler.

    Which, is dumb.

    The guy rolling his tanks into other countries is the threat.
     
  11. HTM

    HTM Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    7,977
    Likes Received:
    5,829
    Biden was a greater threat to Ukraine then Putin because the US wouldn’t guarantee Ukrainian freedom.
     
  12. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    129,307
    Likes Received:
    39,854
    Germans are smarter than 20% of Americans.

    DD
     
  13. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,132
    Likes Received:
    23,418
    If there had been an alliance similar to NATO before Hitler, providing collective defense, and if FDR effectively eliminated it, urging Hitler to do whatever he wanted, then yes, it is very logical that many may see him as a greater threat. Since FDR enabled Hitler, who likely was hindered from taking aggressive action toward anyone in the alliance, many may view him as posing a greater threat.
     
  14. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,132
    Likes Received:
    23,418
    If Ukraine was part of NATO and Biden effectively eliminated it and urged Putin to do whatever, yes, he could likely be viewed that way. But since Ukraine was NOT part of NATO and Biden didn't urge Putin to be aggressive, no one is saying he was a threat to Ukraine.
     
  15. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    26,765
    Likes Received:
    15,077
    I don’t have time and am on my phone to give a valid response. I would say though for one there were several reports that Trump’s cabinet were considering voting him out of office because of who he was and is. Also whatever chance he would F up the entire world are is not 0% nor obviously 100%. He is an imbecile et al capable of outliers much more in my opinion than any other president in my lifetime.
     
  16. HTM

    HTM Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    7,977
    Likes Received:
    5,829
    A greater threat then the leader actually rolling tanks into their country?

    An ally who fails to come to your aid in not a greater threat then an aggressor taking direct action against you and to assert otherwise is totally asinine.
     
  17. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,132
    Likes Received:
    23,418
    Yes, it can be. The reason is that with an alliance similar to NATO, there likely wouldn't be tanks rolling in, thanks to the deterrent factor. When someone removes the deterrent factor and invites others to be aggressive, that someone becomes a great threat to peace.
     
  18. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    45,954
    Likes Received:
    28,049
    They're starting to though. Germany, france, japan...let alone poland. S. Korea is starting to go Gangnam gangbusters from new customers looking for budget Hyundai Himars/missile/tank action.

    Maybe Donny feels slighted (when isn't he?) that he's hasn't been credited for calling NATO out at the NATO leadership summit early on while his contemporaries snickered and sneered for not be acknowledged for what they have contributed.

    It took a Russian invasion to shift the euro stance on russia and china, but I doubt the Euros will spend even more because of Trump...because they're getting towards spending at levels Trump would brag as a successful "shakedown" 3 years ago.

    The media portrayal of the whole thing is dumb and dancing by the pace of his fat fingers typing on social media.

    Europe isn't screwed if we pull out. They will spend more, but not as much since there are American bases sprinkled all over the map. It would be a transactional racket, but the whole endeavor would likely blow up in our faces more than the Euros. They're just sneakier diplomatically and with the checkbook, and they're closer to the action.

    Again, it means we'll have less friends to count on to project power and influence.

    American magats are funny. They'll pretend they dont care about world opinion (still b**** about the smallest slights) while also pretending that theyre world champions at anything they win. But the moment the world moves on from them, they're more emboldened to break **** than a cave dwelling fundamentalist.
     
  19. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,132
    Likes Received:
    23,418
    A bull knows how to break things easily, but not so much about fixing them. See Iran Nuclear deal.
     

Share This Page