Ultimately, our best player......

hlmbasketball · Dec 11, 2023

invocux said: ↑

+ Thus that's why a player can shoot 6 of 7 from 3pt range, play good defense on a player he is assigned to but stil have a poor +/-

No if you are shooting good from 3pt line and a good defender you will have good +/- 80% of the game you played. You are fixated on 1 game for no reason. Flukes happen and nobody in the world judges a player based off of 1 game. Nobody's like oh he was -20 in the game we won by 3 therefore he's a liability. Literally no mammal brain operates like this. If his +/- is always in the negative side then ppl start complaining about his game. +/- is a terrific metric if you have enough data.

Last year Sengun was:

+13 in Grizzlies (-10)
-8 in Bucks (-20)
-1 in Suns (-15)
0 in Wolves (-12)
-5 in Pelicans (-13)
+4 in Pacers (-8)
+2 in Nuggets (-16)
-4 in Nuggets (-20)
0 in Magic (-6)
+5 in Mavs (-5)
-3 in Pels (-11)
-1 in Jazz (-17)
-10 in Kings (-20)
-2 in Kings (-25)
-6 in Clippers (-21)
+2 in Hornets (-5)
+3 in Wizards (-5)
-11 in Cavs (-18)
-9 in Kigs (-20)
-5 in Sixers (-19)
-3 in GSW (-15)
-7 in Grizzlies (-14)
0 in Nets (-22)
-3 in Bulls (-8)
-2 in Pelicans (-10)
+5 in Grizzlies (-5)
-18 in Grizzlies (-37)
-5 in Lakers (-25)
-12 in Cavs (-17)

This is called consistency. He played with awful players under a god awful coach who loathed him but he still was better than most of his teammates in the 30 games we lost. We were 22-60 last year. So in the half of the games we lost he was pretty good compared to others. Even the odds were against his favor he found a way to look better than the others. He played against many different teams, different people guarded him, KPJ was his pg and he consistently had better +/- than his teammates. You have no idea what you are talking about my friend. Just because there are different factors playing role on a player's +/- doesn't mean he doesn't have any sort of control on his +/-.

> So if you take that into account, a player's numbers have many determining factors, other than how he himself plays. So when people base their opinions, assessments on Sengun based upon his +/- and say, he is going to be one of the greatest do to his +/- by compairson to Jokic,
Embiid, Magic, etc. don't you find that misleading?

+/- isn't the only metric you should use that's for sure but it's not misleading comparing their +/-. Sengun is not going to be as good as Jokic because he's not as big as him and doesn't have his court vision. But if a guy tells me that their numbers were similar at the age of 21 therefore he could be like Jokic i don't feel like i'm being misled by him. He's just telling you that he's on the right track the only thing he doesn't know is that road will get bumpy, Sengun will come across bunch of potholes. We don't know if he can take that leap. I don't think he will but if someone tells me that he will i'll just assume that he doesn't think thoroughly
Click to expand...

To put ALL of this in a nutshell you are saying Alpi had a better +/- than other Rocket's players, despite all of the variables from last yr; KPJ, Coaching, etc.

And so Im telling you, it can be easily proceived as since he didn't play as big of a role, nor did he get as many minutes as he is getting now, then his numbers would not be as low as those who played more mins. Its a double edge sword.

Numbers just do not tell the whole story.

hlmbasketball · Dec 11, 2023

Tonight I saw where Sengun/Tari was a +55! Lol

Tari played well but Sengun, like most others was horrible

Proud Firelander · Dec 11, 2023

Sengun WAS horrible (by his own standards) today. And getting 15/9/4/2/1 shooting 50% playing that bad, actually PROVES that he clearly IS the best player on this team.

harold bingo · Dec 11, 2023

hlmbasketball said: ↑

Tonight I saw where Sengun/Tari was a +55! Lol

Tari played well but Sengun, like most others was horrible
Click to expand...

What does that mean? They were +55 what?

burlesk · Dec 12, 2023

hlmbasketball said: ↑

Thanks for recognizing that someone can hold a conversation without being ignorant.

In regards to stats/numbers vs an eye test, no one still has not given me a logical answer as to why, when Aaron Holiday shot 6-7 3pt and had what many considered the best player of that game vs OKC, had the lowest +/-?

So in theory, we would say, there are many variables which lead to his +/- being low; who he was on the court with, who OKC had on the court at the time, other than his play. There are many determining factors when considering a players +/-.

This is why Im saying numbers are misleading to what we actually see on the court.
Click to expand...

Although: +/- IS a notoriously incomplete and misleading number. Numbers are not all created equal -- a stat is only as good as its contextual limitations will let it be. There are much better indicators of overall performance than +/-.

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