The absurd unholy alliance between woke leftists and Islamists and far right Nazis

@AroundTheWorld

There are islamists and there are Muslims. The woman is enthusiastic about the religion which if you have an issue with that, fine. But your thread title isn't accurate let alone fair

 

In what universe do I give a s*** about how successful he is? He might not need to make stuff up...but he did. It's just as dumb as saying all Germans are Nazi's. You're German. Are you a Nazi?

Just because 2 people on the extreme left said something terrible doesn't equate to the entire American left believing it. I'm fairly certain many Congressional Democrats came out strongly against things they've said. Don't be so obtuse.

Not that I know of. Even if I did, in my opinion, oppression is always wrong.

 

Interesting interview from Hoover. First time I heard what the slogan "From the River to the Sea" meant.

@7:45 RUSS ROBERTS: You know, a lot of people have noticed that when people marched in Sydney, Australia, a very tolerant multicultural country, Australia, the police told the Jews not to go near the Sydney Opera House where the pro-Palestinian demonstration was being held. I think within a day or two of the tragedies, that crowd chanted, "Gas the Jews." There was nothing subtle there.

"From the River to the Sea" is a slogan you hear over and over again at these rallies, and that means the river is the Jordan and the sea is the Mediterranean, and what they mean is, to be blunt, it should be Judenrein, free of Jews, to use a very unpleasant word. So, I think a lot of us here are thinking, well, where you are, we have our own problems, but you also have some issues, people who perhaps don't share the values that you would hope they would share. That certainly seems to be the case in many of these protests. So, that's one response I think Israel has.

The other response is there's been an enormous flourishing of Jewish identity in Israel. And that sounds like a weird thing to say. I mean, it's a Jewish country. Seven million of the citizens here, of the nine or so, are Jews. What do you mean there's been a flourishing of Jewish identity? As you probably know, there's quite a bit of conflict here between the secular society, the non-religious, typically living in places like Tel Aviv, versus the more religious, sometimes ultra-Orthodox groups here that are often associated with Jerusalem. As even was talked before this war, that there would be two states here, not Israeli and Palestinian, but religious and non-religious Jewish states. What this war has done, that's absolutely fascinating, is there's been a huge — there's no atheists in a foxhole. A lot of people who are not particularly religious are drawn to traditional forms of Judaism in the weeks since the war started. And I think there's an identity, an identification of more Israelis with world Jewry that was not so strong before. So there's a camaraderie and sympathy. Not that there wasn't there before, but it's much more intense and much stronger in the aftermath of these protests and violence.


@12:00 H.R. MCMASTER: Russ, you're at a liberal arts university, and one of the things I've been trying to figure out is how the hell do we get here, you know? On October 7th, my wife and I were at Alwi Berkel, and, um, you know, I couldn't believe the attacks. Like, everybody was just shocked at these attacks, and now to see people protesting and chanting slogans like "From The River To The Sea," which cannot be interpreted as anything but a genocidal chant. You know, how did we get here? Do you think it's... I know that there are issues with maybe, you know, maybe immigrant populations who are sympathetic to the Palestinians, but these are pro-Hamas protesters from my perspective, and many of them, you know, are not from the region.

And how much do you think of this is due to what we might call a curriculum of self-loathing in universities, in which young people have been subjected to, you know, postmodernist, postcolonial theories, various critical theories that actually have been inflicted on them, an orthodoxy that is anti-Semitic, anti-Israel, almost unthinking, and separate from any kind of humanness? It seems as if it's a self-righteous, but thoroughly unethical sort of ideology that has been embraced by at least a significant number of young people.

RUSS ROBERTS: Yeah, if you've seen the videos, there's an enormous amount of ignorance about the Middle East, about Israel, about the Palestinian problem. I'm certainly not going to pretend that Israel has been saintly in the way it's treated the Palestinians. I think we have a lot to look at in the mirror going forward, and I'm very hopeful that in the day after, Israel takes a long look at how we have dealt with this issue in the past and realizes that a different approach is needed. So, having said that, there's an immense amount of ignorance, and I say that word is just a factual matter. You know, when you press people for what does it mean to say "From The River To The Sea," what is Antifa, what does genocide mean, what does ethnic cleansing mean, what has Israel done with respect to civilians, does Hamas tell the truth, etc., there's a whole range of things you can think about and look at, and I think most people aren't, not surprisingly, terribly informed about this at the level that the more intense feeling people are. And I think a lot of what we're seeing on college campuses is social people wanting to do what they think is the right thing. I think what's been remarkable about the first few weeks of this is that people who did what they thought was the wrong thing suddenly discovered they might lose their job or be humiliated on the internet, and what used to be free has suddenly become costly.

But in terms of the general question of how we got here, I think you're certainly right. There's a I think of it very simply from the work of Arnold Cang, who wrote a very, very, very powerful but and very short book called "The Three Languages of Politics." A lot of people look at the world, we call them progressives, liberals on the left, as a fight between the oppressor and the oppressed. Conservatives tend to see the world as a fight between civilization and barbarism. And Arnold looks at a bunch of issues through that lens, and it's very helpful in helping understand how people look at the world. This is probably one of the most dramatic examples. Many of us see this as civilization versus barbarism. People who behead their victims, kill children in front of their parents, rape women, they're not civilized, they're barbaric. And we naturally, in that axis, turn with sympathy to the civilized folks. And so, we tend to be sympathetic to Israel. People on college campuses, who especially young people, look at the world through the oppressor-oppressed axis. It's definitely consistent with the Marxist axis. And in that Marxist worldview, in that axis, the Palestinians don't have any power. So the story goes, Israel is the oppressor. And there is evidence for that. You can, as I said, Israel has done some harsh things and shameful things, and sometimes necessary things, all of which are very tough on the Palestinian people. And they look oppressed. And therefore, you get this slogan, which I find deeply depressing, but this is out there, "By any means necessary." So what happened on October 7th? Well, can you blame them? They don't have any power. They don't have tanks, etc., etc., etc. That moral compass, I believe, is broken. But that's the way they look at the world now. How do we get to that way of looking at the world is, I think, tied into some of your observations about postmodernism, Marxism, and so on. But the part that's really surprising when you think about it is that the places that are the disciplines that are Marxist, the disciplines that are postmodern, they're an ever-shrinking part of American college campuses. And yet, the people who are studying those things get angrier and louder. And this is what we're looking at. It's deeply disturbing, Russ. It seems like there's been a huge generational shift less than a week after the appalling attacks of October 7th.​

 

I understand all regions even the ones the ancient Mesopotamians worshipped

the Annunaki

aka the 99ers

 

@Salvy
@Os Trigonum
@AroundTheWorld
I know the Hamas are Islamic fanatics and probably kidnapped the THAI PEOPLE cause they eat PORK
and PORK TASTES GOOD , BUT THEY DON'T KNOW IT CAUSE THEY AREN'T AS SMART AS THE THAI PEOPLE

 

that's what the IDF is trying to do with Hamas
@AroundTheWorld

 

@AroundTheWorld
@basso

the WOKE's HERO er HEROIN

 

Then they aren't "Woke Leftists".

Yes there are violent people who subscribe to governmental structures like Communism or even totalitarian versions of Socialism like the Nazi's, but they aren't woke. If anything their actions are contrary to the idea of being liberal, and "woke."

The narrative you want to propagate is one that conflates governmental structure, and violent actions in order to score points against political parties you want to take down in your own keyboard warrior way.

Hamas is not "WOKE". They are a religious extremist group. Yes there are hypocrites on all sides who ignorantly do not understand history, and only get their news from TikTok, or Prager U or whatever... but the fundamental doctrine of "wokeism" is for self determination, freedom, equality, and peace. Anyone who sides with chopping the heads off of babies ain't "Woke".

 

I like how you're continuing to deflect from where this conversation started and turned it in to a thing about who or what I support.

 

As someone who goes down real conspiracy rabbit holes, I'll tell you that he barely dips his toe in the conspiracy pool.

 

Hamas can get 3 Palestinian fighters back for each hostage. Do you think they would interested in a transsexual Muslim?

 

How about the hundreds of posts pushing the Paul Pelosi theory? You reek of right wing conspiracy theory addiction. You’re just slightly smart enough to try and give yourself side steps to gaslight with.

 

Go check out the Paul Pelosi thread if you think I’m being too critical. He is knee deep in it but knows how to attempt to toe the line, but it’s obvious.